Why didn't Thorin & Co use Mithril armor in the ⚔️Battle of Five Armies?

[BalrogRingDestroyer]

I guess I first thought of this from a joke used in a "How it Should Have Ended" for the Hobbit movie (the third one) where Bilbo, who already has a magic ring, tells Thorin to keep the Mthril coat and so uses it to avoid being killed by Azog. While Azog was already dead in the books by this time, I think Thorin was killed in a fight with Azog's son, Bolg in the books or at least fighting him plus others.

However, if Thorin had found one coat of mithril for Bilbo, surely in an old dwarf armor lair and fortress, there would have been a bunch of them. And since Thorin was already scheming for a lopsided fight (about 312 dwarves or so against loads more men and elves), you'd think he'd have been looking around the treasure lair, while walled up in Fort Thorin against the Elves and Men, to try and find some awesome weapons and armor to help his group plus Dain's Army.

If that Mithril Armor was able to turn a bunch of nasty attacks on Frodo in Moria (though I suppose, if the dwarves who got the Mithril from Moria, lost their king to a fight with the goblins at Moria, that the armor wasn't all-protective), it might have saved Thorin, Kili, and Fili's lives in that battle.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

We don't know they didn't have mithril coats. However, there are indications they didn't. For one thing, Thorin puts on a coat of "gold-plated rings", and it seems unlikely mithril would be so overlaid. Secondly, mithril was so rare and highly prized, that I doubt it would be used for anything so common and prosaic as a coat of armor, Bilbo's being a special case, having been "wrought for some young elf-prince long ago" -- therefore, a special commission or gift.

Additionally, although it was stronger than steel, its real benefit as armor was that it was far lighter; this was helpful for Bilbo, and later for Frodo, but would have meant little to Dwarves, who, as said in Fellowship, "made light of burdens".

 

[Ent]

It is an interesting question. The Dwarves set up a significant trade of Mithril with the Elves, for whom it was the most highly prized metal. It made the Dwarves extremely rich.

Perhaps they just didn't consider putting it to use as armor a "profitable" venture, given its value. The Dwarves were always greedy.

They also didn't know the extent of the mother-lode under Barazinbar. They were still digging to find that out when they woke the Balrog.

Of course, it's all speculation, as Tolkien chose not to make it entirely clear.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

As @Squint-eyed Southerner previously stated, I don't think that they would've used it for just anything. The coat of Mithril given to Bilbo is a very rare scenario, and it had been created for some prince. The Dwarves also I believe altogether favored plated armor and helmets to the shinier and more luxurious Mithril pieces. The Dwarves were great craftsmen, but they were also very hardy.

Also-- Mithril is rare, and I don't see the Dwarves making LOTS of coats out of it, seeing that they were greedy and not delighted to share, even with other Dwarves.

They were also sort of thrown into this battle, so Mithril might have been an after thought.

As previously said, all speculation-- no way to clearly tell.

 

[Ent]

As @Squint-eyed Southerner previously stated, I don't think that they would've used it for just anything. The coat of Mithril given to Bilbo is a very rare scenario, and it had been created for some prince. The Dwarves also I believe altogether favored plated armor and helmets to the shinier and more luxurious Mithril pieces. The Dwarves were great craftsmen, but they were also very hardy.

Also-- Mithril is rare, and I don't see the Dwarves making LOTS of coats out of it, seeing that they were greedy and not delighted to share, even with other Dwarves.

They were also sort of thrown into this battle, so Mithril might have been an after thought.

As previously said, all speculation-- no way to clearly tell.

One thing I've just VERY recently read, too, is that the Dwarves of Moria shut up their gates and did not participate in one of the wars with the Elves... I yet need to see how that plays into the whole schema... but if they chose not to participate, certainly that reduced their desire to 'waste' Mithril on protective gear.
(Just more fodder for the speculations while the 'fire is hot but the answers are not'...)

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

One thing I've just VERY recently read, too, is that the Dwarves of Moria shut up their gates and did not participate in one of the wars with the Elves... I yet need to see how that plays into the whole schema... but if they chose not to participate, certainly that reduced their desire to 'waste' Mithril on protective gear.
(Just more fodder for the speculations while the 'fire is hot but the answers are not'...)

Hmm... Very interesting. If they chose not to fight at all, that would explain the lack of Mithril armor.

(I love that small bit at the end.. The fire is indeed hot, but the answers are not..)

 

[Ent]

Hmm... Very interesting. If they chose not to fight at all, that would explain the lack of Mithril armor.

(I love that small bit at the end.. The fire is indeed hot, but the answers are not..)

Indeed. I recall now where I read it, and recall I want to go back and validate it in the 'original sources' from which it may have been taken. It is in a supposedly reliable resource...but without confirmation (the sources for which it didn't cite within the small portion of the whole that I read) I don't want to say much more. Perhaps someone else has more direct knowledge of it too.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Indeed. I recall now where I read it, and recall I want to go back and validate it in the 'original sources' from which it may have been taken. It is in a supposedly reliable resource...but without confirmation (the sources for which it didn't cite within the small portion of the whole that I read) I don't want to say much more. Perhaps someone else has more direct knowledge of it too.

I speculated that it was your own creation, I need not know the direct source, however I will gladly take such informative knowledge. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Indeed. I recall now where I read it, and recall I want to go back and validate it in the 'original sources' from which it may have been taken. It is in a supposedly reliable resource...but without confirmation (the sources for which it didn't cite within the small portion of the whole that I read) I don't want to say much more. Perhaps someone else has more direct knowledge of it too.

The earliest published source is in Appendix A, III, "Durin's Folk":

The power of Moria endured throughout the Dark Years and the dominion of Sauron, for though Eregion was destroyed and the gates of Moria were shut, the halls of Khazad-dum were too deep and too strong and filled with a people too numerous and valiant for Sauron to conquer from without. Thus its wealth remained long unravished though its people began to dwindle.

According to the Tale of Years, this happened in S.A 1697.

 

[Ent]

The earliest published source is in Appendix A, III, "Durin's Folk":

According to the Tale of Years, this happened in S.A 1697.

thank you for shortening my search.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

thank you for shortening my search.

I must say-- I like your signature (the thing at the end of your message) very much. What a nice quote.

 

[Ent]

It is an interesting question. The Dwarves set up a significant trade of Mithril with the Elves, for whom it was the most highly prized metal. It made the Dwarves extremely rich.

Perhaps they just didn't consider putting it to use as armor a "profitable" venture, given its value. The Dwarves were always greedy.

They also didn't know the extent of the mother-lode under Barazinbar. They were still digging to find that out when they woke the Balrog.

Of course, it's all speculation, as Tolkien chose not to make it entirely clear.

Hmm... Very interesting. If they chose not to fight at all, that would explain the lack of Mithril armor.

(I love that small bit at the end.. The fire is indeed hot, but the answers are not..)

In fact, it can be noted even the mithril coat given to Bilbo was made for 'some young elf-prince' long ago.
"With that he put on Bilbo a small coat of mail, wrought for some young elf-prince long ago. It was of silver-steel, which the elves call mithril, and with it went a belt of pearls and crystals."
. Tolkien, J.R.R.. The Hobbit (Lord of the Rings) (p. 179). HMH Books. Kindle Edition.

Curiously, it was apparently never delivered. (Though one may suspect any self-respecting Dwarf to have likely required payment in advance...!)
Who knows. Maybe the wars themselves got in the way of the completion of the transaction..!

Nonetheless, 'chance' left the mithril armor to come down through the ages to good ole' Bilbo.

Yet as per Bombadil: "Just chance brought me then, if chance you call it."

 

[Ent]

I must say-- I like your signature (the thing at the end of your message) very much. What a nice quote.

Thank you. I was most happy to have 'happened' upon it in my recent reading. It says so much that is so important to so many of us...!!

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Thank you. I was most happy to have 'happened' upon it in my recent reading. It says so much that is so important to so many of us...!!

Ah, yes.
For me, it is both a reminder to myself and others not to get too confident with words, when in reality, you don't know what you are talking about. It also stems another lesson for me; the foolish speak with excessive confidence, the wise speak with wisdom and knowledge, but ears open to learn.

 

[MPetkovic01]

That Mithril armor was crafted for young price, so it wouldn't fit Throrin. Dwarves are small in height but they are wider than human or elves.

 

[Olorgando]

... Secondly, mithril was so rare and highly prized, that I doubt it would be used for anything so common and prosaic as a coat of armor, Bilbo's being a special case, having been "wrought for some young elf-prince long ago" -- therefore, a special commission or gift. ...

Checking Appendix B "The Tale of Years" for the Second Age:

1999
Thráin I comes to Erebor and founds a dwarf-kingdom 'under the Mountain'. (This is right after the entry for 1981 with the Dwarves fleeing Moria.)
2210
Thorin I leaves Erebor, and goes north to the Grey Mountains, where most of the remnants of Durin's Folk are now gathering.
c. 2480
... Sauron begins to people Moria with his creatures. (After having returned to Dol Guldur in 2460.)
2570
... About this time Dragons reappear in the far North and begin to afflict the Dwarves.
2589
Dáin I slain by a Dragon.
2590
Thrór returns to Erebor. Grór his brother goes to the Iron Hills.
2770
Smaug the Dragon descends on Erebor. Dale destroyed. Thrór escapes with Thráin II and Thorin II.

So ... when did the Dwarves fashion this "small coat of mail, wrought for some young elf-prince long ago."? {from TH chapter 13 "Not at Home", emphasis mine}

The Dwarves had inhabited Erebor for a total of 391 years - 211 and again 180, with a hiatus of 380 years. Unless some Dwarves stayed behind in Erebor when Thorin I left Erebor in 2210 - is that likely?
Anyway, the only Elven Kingdom near Erebor was Thranduil's realm, so the only nearby Elven prince ... would have been Legolas?? Young, small Legolas?!?
Well, perhaps the original settlers of Erebor under Thráin I brought it with them from Moria. Maybe it was brought there from Nogrod or Belegost ...

... or maybe this is another case where it's better not to press the children's fairy-tale TH too hard for M-e canon ...

 

[Starbrow]

Anyway, the only Elven Kingdom near Erebor was Thranduil's realm, so the only nearby Elven prince ... would have been Legolas?? Young, smallLegolas?!?

I wonder if Legolas had brothers. We know very little about him.

 

[Eljorahir]

Why didn't Thorin & Co use Mithril armor in the Battle of Five Armies?​

How much mithril (wrought, unwrought, mined, and unmined) exists in all of Middle-earth?

A. 1-10 kgs
B. 10-100 kgs
C. 100-1000 kgs
D. 1000-10000 kgs
E. >10000 kgs

I have no idea what the right answer is, but I hope it's A (I could live with B). If the answer is A, having 13 dwarven sets of armor available for Thorin and Company would be unlikely.

 

[Uthalin]

The Guards of the Citadel in Minas Tirith wore helms of mithril and there were at least three companies of guard. How big the companies were I don't know, 80? 250?
Later on the gates of Minas Tirith were remade in mithril, so there was a bit knocking about.

 

[Eljorahir]

The Guards of the Citadel in Minas Tirith wore helms of mithril and there were at least three companies of guard. How big the companies were I don't know, 80? 250?

Somehow, I like the idea of mithril being exceedingly rare. So, I'd be happy if only the two guards standing at the door of the citadel had mithril helms while on duty. If one mithril jacket is valued the same as one Shire, how many Shires could you buy with 250 mithril helmets? 😊