Why do 🧝Elves get their butts wooped at Helms deep?

Grond said:

As I posted in a similar thread...

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See my restated vehemence against the Rivendellians in that other thread.

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A lot of it had to do with the fact that they were positioned on the lowermost wall of the fortress which was basically the front line where the main attack was going to come strongest right away. As where the men of Rohan were high up on the keep and didn't get stormed by the enemy until after all the elves had died protecting them. They were the first line of defence and they were so greatly out numbered that the urukahi just plowed them over.

Secondly they are not the great race they used to be as far as the lands of middle earth are concerned, they were forgiven by the valar and all had the option to pass into the west. Most of the elves that comprised their great armies of old were already gone and those who fought at helms deep were more gaurdians of the remaining dwellings of elves. I guess what I'm trying to say is they didn't have the same fighting spirit as they did in the past because they didn't need it. They did not have to fight for their right to live in the world, they could just take the easy way out and take a ship into the west. Ultimately, they didn't have to be there.

I loved all three films,but the presence of the elves at Helms Deep is just bogus, not uplifting.The battle of Helms Deep is a battle of impossible odds.Aproximately 300 warriors and common folk against an army 10000 strong.What could be more stirring than that?The fact that the battle was lost until the deus ex machina arrival of the host of the Rohirrim does nothing to reduce the heroism of the defenders.This kind of thing has happened historically several times.The 300 Spartans stopping the million man Persian army for three days,the Battle of Agincourt,the Battle of the Alamo,the Jewish uprising in Warsaw.It was just arrogance on Peter Jackson's part that his vision of Helms Deep was better than Tolkien's.I love the movie but I would have preferred the elves just staying home.

The Swordsman said:

Aproximately 300 warriors and common folk against an army 10000 strong...
...It was just arrogance on Peter Jackson's part that his vision of Helms Deep was better than Tolkien's...

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I can't be quite sure, but it sounds like you are saying that Tolkien's The Two Towers has 300 men battling against 10,000 orcs. That is simply not the case. I can't remember the precise numbers offhand, but there were well over 1,000 Rohirrim at the start of Helm's Deep, in the book.

Because of other changes made by PJ, the elves were needed to make it more believable. I use "more believable" relatively; the battle wasn't very well done.

Part of the problem was PJ's aborted attempt at including Battle Arwen in the scene at Helm's Deep. Because of this he already had footage of Elves fighting there, so I imagine he just decided to cut Arwen out and made it into the 'morale booster' seen in the film.

If anyone wants a classic example of adding insult to injury, I give you this line.

"Show them no mercy, for you shall receive none!"

Sorry Aragorn (and PJ), but the Elves have been fighting orcs since before the Sun and Moon were even created...I think they probably know this by now. And if the audience has been paying attention at all, they should too.

Perhaps you haven't noticed but right when the battle of Helm's Deep begins all the elves fire arrows at the uru-kai.

Sorry Aragorn (and PJ), but the Elves have been fighting orcs since before the Sun and Moon were even created...I think they probably know this by now. And if the audience has been paying attention at all, they should too.

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I think it is just the case of 'let's throw in a cliched, super-cool line in here, to show how mighty these here Elves are'. The Elves had no place at Helms Deep. They were only there because they were so enigmatic and people wanted to see more of them.