Would Gollum have sailed from the Grey Havens had he survived?

[Rivendell_librarian]

Let's say the Ring simply tumbled into the fire below during the fight between Gollum and Frodo. Then would Gollum have sailed with the other ring bearers? Would he have been too heart-broken to survive the destruction of his precious?

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

The question is, would the Valar allow him passage upon the Straight Road to Valinóre?

The Will of the Valar remains highly significant in matters such as these.

Valar valuvar - Will of the Valar be done.

 

[CheriptheRipper]

Am currently reading Return of the King and I could've sworn I read something related to Gollum's fate being tied to the ring. I think he said it himself so it could ofcourse be a lie (because he told it whilst trying to get rid of Sam).
Anyway I think he would die when the ring gets destroyed.
Did a quick google but couldn't find a source 🥲

 

[Rivendell_librarian]

As a mere elvish librarian, I bow to your authority on such matters, Nienna.

 

[ZehnWaters]

The question is, would the Valar allow him passage upon the Straight Road to Valinóre?

My guess would be "no". I have a feeling all of the accumulated age would have come back immediately, likely meaning death.

 

[Shadow]

I don’t think he would have instantly died if the ring was destroyed. But he could have likely killed himself out of sheer heartbreak, and if not, lived a life of pure torture that had no meaning.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

As a mere elvish librarian, I bow to your authority on such matters, Nienna.

Ah, well. One cannot only consider my perspective. Look at what happened when I pleaded for Melkor's release - it surely did not end well. I would mayhap go as far as saying this: consider all the authorities of the other 13 Valar that would be in accordance and agreement on matters such as these, and do not take my own into account, despite what pity and mercy I may grant him.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Am currently reading Return of the King and I could've sworn I read something related to Gollum's fate being tied to the ring. I think he said it himself so it could ofcourse be a lie (because he told it whilst trying to get rid of Sam).
Anyway I think he would die when the ring gets destroyed.
Did a quick google but couldn't find a source 🥲

I believe he did say something to the effect that if the Ring was lost, he would die, but you may also be remembering Gandalf's words to Frodo that "he is bound up with the fate of the Ring" at Bag End.

 

[Sons of the Woodland King]

I think Gollum's despair would have been akin to that of Maedhros and Maglor when they "lost" the Silmarils. Life would just cease to have joy or meaning.

Sadly, I don't think anyone that broken would be permitted in Valinor, or would even desire to go. The Halls of Mandos seems like a more fitting destination, though I'm not sure where Hobbits go after death.

 

[ZehnWaters]

I think Gollum's despair would have been akin to that of Maedhros and Maglor when they "lost" the Silmarils. Life would just cease to have joy or meaning.

Sadly, I don't think anyone that broken would be permitted in Valinor, or would even desire to go. The Halls of Mandos seems like a more fitting destination, though I'm not sure where Hobbits go after death.

They're humans, so they got the same place as humans.

 

[CheriptheRipper]

I believe he did say something to the effect that if the Ring was lost, he would die, but you may also be remembering Gandalf's words to Frodo that "he is bound up with the fate of the Ring" at Bag End.

Oh nah it's been almost a year since I read the first book and it's been two weeks since I read that passage. So no confusion there.
Okay I looked it up, just a page back apparently.

"Don't kill us, he wept. 'Don't hurt us with nassty cruel steel! Let us live, yes, live just a little longer. Lost lost! We're lost. And when Precious goes we'll die, yes, die into the dust. 'Dusst!' he hissed.
(Page 944 illustrated hardback edition 2020)

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

"Don't kill us. Don't hurt us with nassty cruel steel! Let us live, yes, live just a little longer. Lost lost! We're lost. And when Precious goes we'll die, yes, die into the dust. 'Dusst!'

We of the Ainur see through deceit and trickery, and this seems to be clearly of one his ways of getting what he wants, and fulfilling the desires of his heart that he can ne'er forsake.

It is simply a matter of Time. Fall now, or fall later. What difference does it make?

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

We of the Ainur see through deceit and trickery, and this seems to be clearly of one his ways of getting what he wants, and fulfilling the desires of his heart that he can ne'er forsake.

This makes me wonder again if you've read the book yet.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Somehow I don't feel like passage would be granted to Gollum. The only way he would make the journey in my mind is by deceit, hiding and sneaking as ever was his custom, yet even so, the Valar and Iluvatar himself seem cunning enough to find Gollum even 'fore he arrived in Valinor, or mayhap even stepped foot upon the vessel that would bear him.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

the Valar and Iluvatar himself seem cunning enough to find Gollum even 'fore he arrived in Valinor, or mayhap even stepped foot upon the vessel that would bear him.

Then what forth? What would they do to him?

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

One cannot know for certain, justice mingled with mercy should be his portion, I would suspect.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

Well spoken, Kindler of Stars.

 

[CheriptheRipper]

We of the Ainur see through deceit and trickery, and this seems to be clearly of one his ways of getting what he wants, and fulfilling the desires of his heart that he can ne'er forsake.

It is simply a matter of Time. Fall now, or fall later. What difference does it make?

Oh for sure, I haven't finished the chapter yet but if the movies are anything to go by I do believe he's just trying to stall for time, so he can bite Frodo's finger off.
But even then I don't think it's a lie.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

But even then I don't think it's a lie.

Oh my...you would believe his words and his ways so swiftly?

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

They were true, though, weren't they?