Did Gollum recognize Frodo because of his own hobbit origins?

[AaronAzrael]

In other words, just how corrupted did Gollum become, and what are his real feelings for Frodo? What impact did the Faramir scene at the lake have for this relationship? Did he evetually realise they were the same race?

 

[Olorgando]

In other words, just how corrupted did Gollum become, and what are his real feelings for Frodo? What impact did the Faramir scene at the lake have for this relationship? Did he evetually realise they were the same race?

I won't speculate on Gollum specifically here.
But after Isildur lost the One Ring at the Gladden Fields, the list of "Ring-bearers" runs

Déagol - Sméagol (=> Gollum ) - Bilbo - Frodo - Sam - Frodo - Gollum.

Sauron was watching out for Isildur 2.0 (as current terminology might phrase it). Aragorn, who fit that bill for Sauron, distracted that supremely arrogant (and thus inevitably ignorant) dictator with the Orthanc Palantir. So that this in some ways surprisingly unimaginative Maia got his behind kicked into the void by the least threatening (under normal circumstances) of Eruhini, the Hobbits. Supreme irony that it was in the end the one (very deformed) Hobbit that he had ever captured, and then released with the intent of using him as a sort of "tracker dog", that finally was the one by whose actions his precious One Ring ended up in the Lava of Mount Doom ... 😝

 

[m4r35n357]

Another important aspect of Gollum being a Hobbit, is to show (us) a taste of the sort of things that might happen to Frodo if he gave in. I think Frodo pretty much says this, but I am due for a re-reading very soon so I don't want to check

 

[Olorgando]

Another important aspect of Gollum being a Hobbit, is to show (us) a taste of the sort of things that might happen to Frodo if he gave in. I think Frodo pretty much says this, but I am due for a re-reading very soon so I don't want to check

Yes, that's very likely quite right.
But perhaps another aspect could be that, the One Ring working best on arrogant, ambitious people, it could not have been found by people upon whom it had less effect (except for Tom Bombadil) that would serve its purposes. If you are able, try imagining a ring banging its non-existent head against an imagined wall for almost 500 years before getting destroyed ... 😆

 

[m4r35n357]

Agreed. I don't think there would have been much of a story to tell if the ring had gone to anyone but Frodo! A novella, perhaps?

 

[Olorgando]

Agreed. I don't think there would have been much of a story to tell if the ring had gone to anyone but Frodo! A novella, perhaps?

There was no One Ring, nor Hobbits, let alone "Baggins" or Frodo (or Galadriel or ...) in First Age writing up to 1937. And I very much doubt there would ever have been a published "Silmarillion" of any sort any time soon, or much later, after this date. What then happened was "The Hobbit" ...

 

[Alcuin]

Sauron was watching out for Isildur 2.0 (as current terminology might phrase it). Aragorn, who fit that bill for Sauron, distracted that supremely arrogant (and thus inevitably ignorant) dictator with the Orthanc Palantir.

This is very well put! I didn’t grasp this point when I first read Lord of the Rings as a young teen-ager. Aragorn used himself as bait to distract Sauron and draw his attention away from his borders and away from what was happening in Mordor itself, from his real danger. Thus in RotK (“Mount Doom”), “his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare.” That’s the plot of the story. (See also “What Did Sauron Know”.)

There was no One Ring, nor Hobbits, let alone "Baggins" or Frodo (or Galadriel or ...) in First Age writing up to 1937. And I very much doubt there would ever have been a published "Silmarillion" of any sort any time soon, or much later, after this date. What then happened was "The Hobbit"

It’s funny how Eru works. Without The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, I seriously doubt anyone would care about the material covered in The Silmarillion or Unfinsihed Tales, much less The History of Middle-earth.

...[J]ust how corrupted did Gollum become, and what are his real feelings for Frodo? What impact did the Faramir scene at the lake have for this relationship? Did he ... realise they were the same race?

Concerning the opening post, it was important that Gollum was a hobbit to begin with in both The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Gollum wasn’t hungry when Bilbo first ventured down to his subterranean lake, but he did recognize Bilbo as another Halfling: That piqued Gollum’s interest! In Lord of the Rings, Gollum’s small size and ability to swim the Anduin – after all, he’d grown up on the banks of the Anduin – enabled him to escape Sauron’s Orcs after they freed him from the Wood-elves (in Third Age 3018). Later it helped Frodo: Men could not have passed through Dead Marshes: they’d have downed; the Halflings were able to more easily pass undetected (except for Faramir’s Rangers) in Ithilien and up Morgul Vale. Finally, the Halflings – creatures Sauron had ignored until he captured Gollum, creatures small, weak, and utterly unable to withstand him physically, were the means of his downfall and ruin. This is a Christian theme in Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings: The small and weak matter just as much as the great and rich and powerful.

As for “Gollum[‘s] … feelings for Frodo,” Tolkien wrote in Letter 181 that

​

[Gollum’s] dawning love of Frodo was too easily withered by the jealousy of Sam before Shelob’s lair. After that he was lost.​

​

Discussing Sam in Letter 246,

​

For me perhaps the most tragic moment in the Tale comes … when Sam fails to note the complete change in Gollum's tone and aspect. … Gollum [said] softly[,] “Nice master!” His repentance is blighted and all Frodo’s pity is … wasted. Shelob’s lair became inevitable.​

​

Gollum had begun to love Frodo for his kindness and understanding, something missing from his life from the moment he murdered Déagol for the Ring. That love turned to hate after Sam’s accusation of “Sneak.”

 

[m4r35n357]

So, Sam's "heroic" obstinacy and hatred to the rescue

 

[ZehnWaters]

Yes, that's very likely quite right.
But perhaps another aspect could be that, the One Ring working best on arrogant, ambitious people, it could not have been found by people upon whom it had less effect (except for Tom Bombadil) that would serve its purposes. If you are able, try imagining a ring banging its non-existent head against an imagined wall for almost 500 years before getting destroyed ... 😆

"GAAAAAAH! NOT ANOTHER HOBBIT! SOMEONE WITH AMBITION! AN ORC! ANYONE! I'VE BEEN IN THE DARK FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS!"

 

[ZehnWaters]

This is very well put! I didn’t grasp this point when I first read Lord of the Rings as a young teen-ager. Aragorn used himself as bait to distract Sauron and draw his attention away from his borders and away from what was happening in Mordor itself, from his real danger. Thus in RotK (“Mount Doom”), “his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare.” That’s the plot of the story. (See also “What Did Sauron Know”.)

Can you imagine his unholy terror? Oh, doubt gnawed at him ceaselessly (as Gandalf explained) but I don't think he was this scared since the Downfall of Númenór. Both times he'd been caught off guard by his own pride.

Concerning the opening post, it was important that Gollum was a hobbit to begin with in both The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Gollum wasn’t hungry when Bilbo first ventured down to his subterranean lake, but he did recognize Bilbo as another Halfling: That piqued Gollum’s interest! In Lord of the Rings, Gollum’s small size and ability to swim the Anduin – after all, he’d grown up on the banks of the Anduin – enabled him to escape Sauron’s Orcs after they freed him from the Wood-elves (in Third Age 3018). Later it helped Frodo: Men could not have passed through Dead Marshes: they’d have downed; the Halflings were able to more easily pass undetected (except for Faramir’s Rangers) in Ithilien and up Morgul Vale. Finally, the Halflings – creatures Sauron had ignored until he captured Gollum, creatures small, weak, and utterly unable to withstand him physically, were the means of his downfall and ruin. This is a Christian theme in Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings: The small and weak matter just as much as the great and rich and powerful.

You know, something I'd never thought of before struck me upon reading this. Aragorn, the high and mighty king, needed to humble himself to being mere bait. Both were necessary, however. Frodo couldn't have succeeded without Aragorn, and likewise in reverse. The great shall be humbled and the humble exalted. Very Christian.

As for “Gollum[‘s] … feelings for Frodo,” Tolkien wrote in Letter 181 that

​

[Gollum’s] dawning love of Frodo was too easily withered by the jealousy of Sam before Shelob’s lair. After that he was lost.​

​

Discussing Sam in Letter 246,

​

For me perhaps the most tragic moment in the Tale comes … when Sam fails to note the complete change in Gollum's tone and aspect. … Gollum [said] softly[,] “Nice master!” His repentance is blighted and all Frodo’s pity is … wasted. Shelob’s lair became inevitable.​

​

Gollum had begun to love Frodo for his kindness and understanding, something missing from his life from the moment he murdered Déagol for the Ring. That love turned to hate after Sam’s accusation of “Sneak.”

Thus we see that even the righteous and good people can cause harm when humility, love, and charity aren't performed ALWAYS. Again, a Christian concept.