BalrogRingDestroyer
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- Joined
- Feb 19, 2018
- Messages
- 267
I'd never caught the possible hint at what Gloin was implying in "The Council of Elrond", but now I think I may get the meaning.
Gloin: It is now many years ago that a shadow of disquiet fell upon our people. Whence it came we did not at first perceive. Words began to be whispered in secret: it was said that we were hemmed in a narrow place, and that greater wealth and splendour would be found in a wider world. Some spoke of Moria: the mighty works of our fathers that are called in our own tongue Khacad-dum; and they declared that now at last we had the power and numbers to return."
For a long time, I didn't think much of it, assuming that it had come from an idea from the dwarves, perhaps Balin himself. However, the sentence "Whence it came we did not at first perceive." tells me that they eventually did figure out where it came from. I now recall, after reading the Silmarallion again in 2020 and having last read Fellowship of the Ring in 2018, of how Melkor was spreading discord amongst the Noldor and that this scheming of his did a lot of damage from within. And it makes me wonder if some wicked dwarf sent by Sauron or some foul inside but fair outside seeming Man went to Dale and Erebor with the intent of luring some of the dwarves back to Moria, where perhaps a trap was set.
It would also explain why it seems that none of them bothered to go to Moria to check up on Balin all these years. If they'd thought that the rumor and all had been started by a messenger of Mordor, then perhaps they feared that it was a bad idea to go near there, in case there was an ambush set, and Balin, alive or dead, wouldn't want them caught by Mordor.
The idea that a traveling dwarf, in league with Mordor (as is plausible that such existed, as it was mentioned in the Hobbit that the goblins/orcs made alliances with wicked dwarves) helped start a rumor to cause dissension at Erebor and possibly lead some to Moria into a trap.
Of course, things like the Watcher at the Water seemed to be there on their own without Sauron's help. But the arrival of the orcs might have been the doing of Sauron. If you recall, Thorin (or I think it was him) said "We have long ago repaid the goblins of Moria...." meaning that they got back at them for the death of Thorin's grandfather and presumably drove them from Moria. But, for whatever odd reason, they never resettled the place.
Gloin: It is now many years ago that a shadow of disquiet fell upon our people. Whence it came we did not at first perceive. Words began to be whispered in secret: it was said that we were hemmed in a narrow place, and that greater wealth and splendour would be found in a wider world. Some spoke of Moria: the mighty works of our fathers that are called in our own tongue Khacad-dum; and they declared that now at last we had the power and numbers to return."
For a long time, I didn't think much of it, assuming that it had come from an idea from the dwarves, perhaps Balin himself. However, the sentence "Whence it came we did not at first perceive." tells me that they eventually did figure out where it came from. I now recall, after reading the Silmarallion again in 2020 and having last read Fellowship of the Ring in 2018, of how Melkor was spreading discord amongst the Noldor and that this scheming of his did a lot of damage from within. And it makes me wonder if some wicked dwarf sent by Sauron or some foul inside but fair outside seeming Man went to Dale and Erebor with the intent of luring some of the dwarves back to Moria, where perhaps a trap was set.
It would also explain why it seems that none of them bothered to go to Moria to check up on Balin all these years. If they'd thought that the rumor and all had been started by a messenger of Mordor, then perhaps they feared that it was a bad idea to go near there, in case there was an ambush set, and Balin, alive or dead, wouldn't want them caught by Mordor.
The idea that a traveling dwarf, in league with Mordor (as is plausible that such existed, as it was mentioned in the Hobbit that the goblins/orcs made alliances with wicked dwarves) helped start a rumor to cause dissension at Erebor and possibly lead some to Moria into a trap.
Of course, things like the Watcher at the Water seemed to be there on their own without Sauron's help. But the arrival of the orcs might have been the doing of Sauron. If you recall, Thorin (or I think it was him) said "We have long ago repaid the goblins of Moria...." meaning that they got back at them for the death of Thorin's grandfather and presumably drove them from Moria. But, for whatever odd reason, they never resettled the place.

