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The 🧝Elven Ageing Variants

Tar-Elenion

Elite
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Jan 9, 2002
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These are the variant textual descriptions/explanations of the rate(s) at which Elves age. I have attempted to arrange them in what seems to be a chronological order. As most of texts seem to be dated to 1959, this is somewhat difficult, I thus ordered them in what seems to be a progression from one scheme to the next. I inserted and italicised footnotes/endnotes where I thought appropriate. Editorial commentary that is in red is mine, blue is CT or CFH. Where I did not specify, the text is from Nature of Middle-earth.

MR, LQSII, Laws and Customs
ca. 1958
The Eldar grew in bodily form slower than Men, but in mind more swiftly. They learned to speak before they were one year old; and in the same time they learned to walk and to dance, for their wills came soon to the mastery of their bodies.
For at the end of the third year mortal children began to outstrip the Elves, hastening on to a full stature while the Elves lingered in the first spring of childhood. Children of Men might reach their full height while Eldar of the same age were still in body like to mortals of no more than seven years. Not until the fiftieth year did the Eldar attain the stature and shape in which their lives would afterwards endure, and for some a hundred years would pass before they were full-grown.
...a year passes between the begetting and the birth of an elf-child...
[In Aman, at least, I am fairly convinced that these 'years' are Tree Years, i.e. 9.582 Sun years. See, e.g., Finarfin born in YT 1230, marries in YT 1280 (Annals of Aman) "The Eldar wedded for the most part in their youth and soon after their fiftieth year", L&C. Also interesting to note that the first 3 years growth is as with Men Thus should the pregnancy through age 3 time be measured in sun years in Aman?]

1 III Of Time in Arda
[not dated by CFH, presumably 1959 as with the others; this text seems to set up 'IV Time-scales']
I The Quendi compared with Men
Elves closely resembled Men in this process. They reached maturity (of the body) at about the age of 20, and remained in full physical vigour till about the age of 60. After that the fëa and its interests began to dominate them. At the age of about 100 one of the Quendi had reached a stage similar to that of a Mortal of full age and wisdom. The normal period, therefore, for marriage and the begetting and bearing of children and their nurture (which were among the greatest delights of the Quendi in Arda) was between about the ages of 20 and 60.

1 IV Time-scales
The text dates to c. 1959.
They reached maturity at about the age of 20, [fn1 Elf-men 24, women 18] and remained in full physical vigour till about the age of 60, after which the fëa and its interests began to assume command. After about the age of 90–96 one of the Quendi had reached a stage similar to that of a vigorous and hale Mortal of high age and wisdom.

An elven-child was borne in its mother’s womb for about the same (relative) time as a mortal child, that is for about ¾ of a “youth-year” = ¾ of 12 löar = 9 löar; [fn6 Actually, a length of time = Mortal 96 months or 8 years] though in the Quendi this period was more variable, often being less, and on rare occasions being more.
...one “growth-year” = 12 löar;

In their beginning the Quendi grew at a rate in which the “unit” was the yên or Elven-year, which was 144 MY. If then an elf-child grew to a maiden and a young woman in about 20 “years”, wedded at 25 and bore her first child at 26, her age in mortal terms would be 2,880 at maturity, 3,600 at wedding, and 3,744 at childbirth.
Gestation, therefore, proceeds according to the growth and ageing scale of the Quendi, and occupies ¾ yên, or 108 MY. [18 As first written, this paragraph ended: “occupies a whole yén, or 144 MY”.]
This will not fit the narrative in the Silmarillion. What of Maeglin?
[While Laws & Customs has a full 'one year' pregnancy (presumably = 9.58 sun-years in Aman, or is it 1 sun-year, as the first 3 years are little different than Men), this attempts to match the pregnancy of Men, as a portion of a yên, thus a 108 sun-years pregnancy, and by a deliberate change from a full yen, i.e. 144 years]

1 IX Time-scales and “rates of growth”
It dates from c. 1959

--------------------------Valian Year of Ageing---Mortal Men
-------------------------------------1 -----------------144
Original Quendian---------------- 1----------------- 144
Later ----------------------------25/36 ---------------100
...the Avari quickened to 100 : 1 as soon as the Eldar had departed; that the Nandor did likewise as soon as they forsook the March; that the Sindar did so also when they chose to remain on the Western Shores; and that finally the exiled Ñoldor were quickened in the same way as soon as they left Aman, or rather as soon as the Doom of Mandos was spoken and they persisted in their rebellion.
the rate 100 : 1 can be used to determine approximately the age of any of the Eldar in human terms (except while they were in Aman where it is 144 : 1)
It is said that after the fall of Sauron, and the beginning of the Fourth Age and the Dominion of Men, those of the Elves who still lingered in Middle-earth were again “quickened” to a rate of about 72 : 1, or in these latter days to 48 : 1.
[Tolkien at some later point wrote in the margin against this paragraph in red ball-point pen: “no quickening” and “All this needs revision to duodecimal”]

1 X Difficulties in Chronology
from c. 1959
Solution 1) Elves married late in Aman (usually). They became adult at life-age 20, but that = 20 VY = 2,880; but they remained very young and vigorous (and youthful in mind and interests) so that often they did not wed until they were 200 life-years old or nearly that: sc. when 28,800 Sun-years old!
2) But under the Sun (outside Varda’s Domes) all the Eldar had quickened in growth, though they had not lost (at first) much of their steadfastness in vigour and health at that point. They therefore reached maturity 10 times quicker or became 20 when only 200 [sun-]years old; they then maintained this vigour, ageing only at the rate of 100 years = 1 life-year.
To find the approximate age-equivalence therefore in mortal years: For those born in Aman reckon years in Aman as if mortal (or divide real number of Sun-years by 144) up to FA 1496; then divide Beleriand Years by 100. Thus an Elda born in Aman in 1475 would be 20 at the Exile, 21 at arrival in Middle-earth, + 590/100 [older] at the fall of Morgoth = about 27.
For those born in Beleriand. Maeglin for example, born in Bel. 120, was in only 200 years (= 20) an adult: sc. he was in life-age 20 in Bel. 320. But in 495, when Tuor came to Gondolin, he was only (495-320)/100 years older: sc. 175/100 = less than 2 years or about 22. When Maeglin came to Gondolin c. 400 he was thus 20 + 80/100 years old.
If born in Aman, it must be remembered that if they were not yet adult, the rate of growth would become 10 = 1 when they set foot in Middle-earth (or probably as soon as the Doom of Mandos was spoken in VY 1495).
3) The Rate of Growth of those born in Beleriand was 10 = 1. But of those born in Aman it was 50 = 1 in Beleriand. But it began to increase as soon as they left Valinor, say after the Doom of Mandos.
[an attempt to fix the Maeglin 'problem', but seems to have been written before the before 'no quickening' and 'duodecimal' note]

1 XI Ageing of Elves
It dates from c. 1959
The age or “growth” scale must be altered. In Aman in the early ages it was very slow. The Eldar then lived at Valian rate: 144 : 1, but also their youth lasted very long,
But this slow growth was only maintained in Aman “under the domes of Varda”. The rate of growth “under the Sun” soon quickened. For all periods relative to the narrative it may be taken as 10 : 1. That is, from conception to maturity the Elvish hröa in Middle-earth only took 10 times the period of Men. But reaching maturity at 20 they then remained in long-lasting vigour with little perceptible change: i.e., the ageing rate was 144 : 1, or in Middle-earth 100 : 1
With regard to those born in Aman it might prove useful to increase their growth-span. Thus the maturing rate of those born in Aman should be 50 : 1, and this should continue in the second generation (those begotten in Beleriand or Eriador of one or two Aman-born parents).
This will not work
But note [growth] rates doubled in 1496. Finduilas (the youngest Exile) was 12 in 1495. During 1496 she “grew” at a rate of 25 : 1. Therefore in 144/25 years she grew 6 years. She landed in Beleriand at 16. She then resumed the 50 : 1 growth-rate and needed 4 × 50 – 4 = 196 [sun-years] to complete maturity. She was therefore 20 in MY 196. In MY 502 she had lived 306 more years at 100 : 1 and so was 23.
from 'contemporary draft materials':
Idril should be also about 30 in Bel. 500. To be 30 in Bel. 500 required 2 [life-]years on journey [across the Ice from Aman to Middle-earth], 16 [life-]years at [growth rate] 12 : 1 = 192 [to reach maturity], and then 12 more [life-years] at 144 : 1.

The journey to Middle-earth [took] 144 [sun-]years but counted as 2 [life-]years: 144 + 192. We still have to alter the arrangement during the march from Aman in VY 1496. This occupied 144 sun-years; but it was so horrible that the mature aged at a double rate 2 [life-]years during that time. The immature should also have aged at a double rate, at 6 [sun-years] = 1 [growth-year]. Thus an Elda going into exile in VY 1495 at 12 [growth-years] would, by the end of the journey, if female, only require another 6 [growth] years for maturity = 36 [sun-years] and would therefore become 18 in SY 36 of VY 1496.[19] At the end of VY 1496 and arrival in Beleriand she would have had another 108 years at the 72 : 1 rate = 1½ [life-years] and therefore be 19½. She would then resume the 144 : 1 rate and in Bel. 502 would be only 502/144 years older, or about 3½ [life-years]. She would be 23. This fits fairly well. If we make Idril 18 at Exile in 1495, she was then “mature” and lived rest of [her] life at 144 : 1 save the year of journey = 2 [life-years]. She was therefore 20 when she arrived in Beleriand, and in 502 would be 23½. If Idril was 20 at Exile she will be 25½ in Bel. 502

[CFH includes 'contemporary draft material] with the 1 XI text.
The green text is from Tolkien, but I am finding it problematic which I will explain in a follow-up post.
The 1 XI Ageing seems to have been written before the before 'no quickening' and 'duodecimal' note, while the Idril contemporary draft material has duodecimal and no quickening]


MR, MT XI, Aman
ca. 1959
In Aman the length of the unit of 'year' was the same as it was for the Quendi.
It was, however, the fact that the Elvish speed of 'growth' accorded with the unit of Valian time that made it possible for the Valar to bring the Eldar to dwell in Aman. In one Valian year the Eldar dwelling there grew and developed in much the same way as mortals did in one year upon Middle-earth. In recording the events in Aman, therefore, we may as did the Eldar themselves use the Valian unit, though we must not forget that within any such 'year' the Eldar enjoyed an immense series of delights and achievements which even the most gifted of Men could not accomplish in twelve times twelve mortal years [5 In notes not given in this book, in which my father was calculating on this basis the time of the Awakening of Men, he expressly stated that 144 Sun Years = 1 Valian Year]. Nonetheless the Eldar 'aged' at the same speed in Aman as they had done in their beginning upon Middle-earth.
On Earth while an elf-child did but grow to be a man or a woman, in some 3000 years, forests would rise and fall, and all the face of the land would change, while birds and flowers innumerable would be born and die in löar upon löar under the wheeling Sun.
[No quickening, Elves, in Aman or Middle-earth, age one year for 144 sun-years, adult at ca. 20.
The notes CT refers to may be the Awaking of the Quendi text in NoMe 1 VI.
Is pregnancy a full year (i.e. 144 years) or a partial year?]


1 V Youth of the Quendi
It dates from c. 1959.
The Eldar distinguished between growth and life (or life-endurance). The former was 12 times as rapid (in ageing effect) as the latter.
Now as for growth: this affected the Elvish hröa from conception until maturity (or puberty). The life-endurance rate of the Quendi was as 1 yên is to 1 löa or “sun-year”: that is, 144 : Human 1. The growth-rate was 12 times as rapid: i.e., was only in proportion 12 löar = 1 [Human] löa or sun-year. Thus from conception to birth they lay in the womb 9 löar. When born they continued to grow at the same rate, until puberty. With Elf-males this was reached at “age” 24; but with Elf-females at age 18. That is for males 24 × 12 after birth, or 288 löar; for females 18 × 12 or 216 löar.
An Elf-child conceived was born 9 löar later. Elvish “growth” age about 9 months. Actual time: 9 years
The “growth age” of 12:1 (in comparison with mortal years) was maintained until an Elf-man reached “age 24”. Actual time: 288 years
In case of women it usually ceased at 18 though it was sometimes continued, especially in Aman, to 21. Actual time: 216 (or 252)
['duodecimal' and no 'quickening', 9 sun-year pregnancy, 12 to 1 growth rate, in line with the 'Idril draft material', but is a stretch to fix the Maeglin 'problem']


1 XII Concerning the Quendi in their mode of life and growth especially as Compared with Men
I. Youth and Ageing of the Quendi
It dates to c. 1959
The Eldar distinguished between olmië and coivië. The former was the period or process of their ‘growth’ from conception to maturity of body, and was achieved twelve times as rapidly as the coivië.
The olmië was achieved at a rate equalling 12 löar (or sun-years) to 1 löa of human life. An Elvish ‘growth-year’, or olmen, was therefore 12 sun-years. Thus from conception to birth they grew in the womb 9 löar. When born they continued to grow at this rate until maturity of body.
The coivië then proceeded at a rate 12 times as slow, so that 144 löar (or sun-years) may be more or less equated, so far as change or alteration are concerned, with 1 year of human adult life.
Elf-men reached maturity at about 24: that is, after 24 olmendi (or 2 yéni): 288 löar. Elf-women reached maturity normally after 18 olmendi (or 1½ yéni): 216 löar. [fn3 This rate was in some individuals rather slower and might take up to 21 olmendi, or 252 löar.]
After this, their ‘youth’ (vinyarë), or the time of their full bodily vigour, endured (for both sexes) for about 72 coimendi or yéni after maturity. That is: it lasted until Elf-men were of “age” 24 + 72 or 96; and Elf-women were of “age” 18 + 72 or 90. But expressed in “years” or löar this is 288 + 10,368, or 10,656 years for males; and 216 + 10,368, or 10,584 for females.
[duodecimal and no 'quickening', 9 sun-year pregnancy, 12 to 1 growth rate]

1 VII March of the Quendi
It dates from c. 1959
Let the March begin when the youngest of the 8th gen. are at least 10 [growth-]years old (= 120 solar years)
of the 8th gen. If 1127/29 + 2 VY (= 288 [sun-]years) = 1129/29 or early 1129. The youngest marchers will be 24 [growth-years] (288 [sun-]years) old, the oldest 168 löar or 1VY/24 older.
[12 to 1 growth rate]


1 XVI Note on the Youth and Growth of the Quendi
It dates from c. 1959
All the elaborate calculations based on olmië 12 : 1 and coivië 144 : 1 are both cumbrous, and in early narrative (Awaking and Finding, March, etc.) quite unworkable.
Elves should grow from conception at a rate comparable to Human; but from maturity onward should slow to 144 : 1 rate, diminution appearing (almost imperceptibly at first) at c. age 96.
Let Elves remain in the womb for 1 löa, Spring to Spring. Both sexes reach maturity at 24 löar, and then slow. But puberty is different: in males reached at about 21, in females at 18.
Olmendi [‘growth-years’]: 1 olmen = 1 löa.
Coimendi [‘life-years’]: 1 coimen = 144 löar
Colbanavië [‘gestation’] = 1 olmen
Ontavalië ‘puberty’: male 21 olmendi, female 18 olmendi.
Quantolië ‘maturity’: 24 olmendi
Vinimetta: ‘end of youth’: 96 = 24 löar + 72 coimendi = 24 + 10,368 = 10,392.
[Back to a one year pregnancy, but one sun-year whether in Aman or Middle-earth, Elves grow 1 to 1 until mature at 24 (sun) years. This would solve the Maeglin 'problem']


1 XVII Generational Schemes
from c. 1959
Text 1
[Note that throughout the gestation period is 1 löa, as is the length of a growth-year]
“End of Youth” – c. age 60 (= [growth] years 24 + coimendi 36 = 24 + 5,184 = c. 5,208)
[1 sun-year pregnancy, 1 to 1 growth years until maturity, but a much shorter 'youth']

1 VI The Awaking of the Quendi
TEXT A
1960 [according to an explicit statement in it]
If Elves from the beginning grew at later rates: the first generation would be “maturing” between 216 and 288 years after “awakening”, but they would not have reached prime (in early days, at age 100) for another 76–82 Elven years = same number of VYs (or SYs 10,944–11,808)
TEXT B ["closely contemporary" "considerable expansion" of A]
I. Preliminary discussion
Quendi, it must be assumed, had from the beginning a natural rate of “growth” and “life”, which was not in the early ages much altered anywhere: thus from the beginning we can reckon with a 12 : 1 rate (as compared with Men) of “growth”, and a subsequent 144 : 1, or Valian, rate of “ageing”.
The “lives” of the Quendi cannot be supposed to be affected by living in Middle-earth “under the Sun” – NOT IF as now seems certain the Sun is made part of the original structure of Arda, and not devised only after the Death of the Trees – since they were devised to live in Middle-earth and “under the Sun”. Any alteration (if any!) would occur under the “artificial” conditions of Aman. But since the Quendian rate of “ageing” was already that of the Valar (144 : 1) the alteration would only concern the growth rate (12 : 1) : this might well be slowed to 36 : 1 or 72 : 1 or even 144 : 1.
[Interesting that after dropping to a 1 to 1 growth rate for a couple of the 1959 texts, Tolkien goes back up to 12 to 1, and seems to be considering slowing it way down, all the way back to 144 to 1, at least for Elves in Aman. Also seems to increase the length of 'youth', if 'end of youth' is what 'prime' means]

3 XVI Concerning Galadriel & Celeborn
[ca. 1960, CFH notes that this is written on Oxford documents dated 1955; however this cannot be the writing date as names Finarfin and Finrod both used in this for Galadriel's father and brother respectively (rather than Finrod and Inglor), these names are not changed until ca 58 or 59). Further: I am inclined to date it to 1960, and place it immediately after 1 VI The Awaking of the Quendi, based on CT's statements in PoMe ("in any case Aldarion and Erendis and the closely related Description of Númenor preceded by some time (I would now be inclined to date them to about 1960)", Shibboleth, The parentage of Gil-galad); and that the origin story of Galadriel bringing the mallorn-trees to Lorien (note 5 in UT, History of Galadriel and Celeborn "Both here and elsewhere the meaning of the name is explained by reference to the golden mallorn-trees of Lothlórien; but they were brought there by Galadriel (for the story of their origin see pp. 216 – 17), is found in the Description text ("some were given as a gift by Tar-Aldarion, the sixth King of Númenor, to King Gil-galad of Lindon. They did not take root in that land; but Gil-galad gave some to his kinswoman Galadriel, and under her power they grew and flourished in the guarded land of Lothlórien").]
Tolkien made various calculations based on the dates cited in this text, and corresponding time-spans in yéni (the “long years” of the Elves, equating to 144 solar years).
Amroth was already prince in S.A. 850, only 32 yên [when he] passed in T.A. 1981.
In the accompanying calculations it can be discerned that Tolkien assigned his birth to S.A. 750, and that Amroth was thus 32 yéni plus 64 solar years = 4,672 solar years old when he passed.
[What growth rate to maturity is it? 12 to 1 or 1 to 1?]

A different chronology, in which Amroth is made somewhat older at his passing, is worked out in the left-hand margin:
Amroth born S.A. 300. 2 in S.A. 588. In S.A. 1350 he was 29. In S.A. 1697 he was 31. In S.A. 3441 nearly 44 (43/117). In T.A. 1693 [he was] 11/109 older = 55/82.
These ages, however (with the exception of the first, being precisely 2 yéni after S.A. 300), cannot be reconciled with a yên of 144 solar years. The accounting of Amroth’s ages through the end of the Second Age in 3441 must refer rather to an apparent age, in terms of human maturation, not actual age in yéni (e.g., in S.A. 1350 Amroth would have been just over 7 yéni old, not 29; and in S.A. 3441 he would have been just under 22 yéni old, not 44). [6 This may explain why Tolkien has marked the ages 2, 29, and 31 with a “+”; but no such mark is made against the subsequent ages. But, T.A. 1693 is indeed 11 yéni + 109 sun-years later than S.A. 3441; so something in this accounting is awry, or at least inconsistent.]
[I do not see the "awry" or "inconsistent".
In the event, 12 to 1 growth to maturity and then 144 to 1.
What does TA 1693 have to do with anything?]


1 XVIII Elvish Ages & Númenórean
15/Aug/1965
Elves’ ages must be counted in two different stages: growth-years (GY) and life-years (LY). The GYs were relatively swift and in Middle-earth = 3 löar. The LYs were very slow and in Middle-earth = 144 löar.
Elves were in womb 1 GY. They reached “full speech” and intelligence in 2 GY. They reached “full growth” of body in 24 GY.
They then had 48 LY of youth, and then 48 LY of “full age” or “steadfast body”, by which time their knowledge ceased to increase. After that the “fading time” began – of unknown duration (very slow) in which (as they say) the fëa slowly consumed the hröa until it became merely a “memory”.
If we neglect the difference of speed and call each unit a “year”, we then see that an elf reached maturity at 24, end of “youth” at 72, and “old age” at 120.
In mortal equivalents the age in physical and other characteristics indicated can be found approximately by multiplying by ¾: “full speech” in 18 months, full growth in 18 years, end of youth approximately at 54, and old age approximately at 90.
In actual time, however, reckoned in löar (Sun-years) the figures are these:
In womb: 3 years.
“Full speech” at 6 years old.
Full growth at 72 years old
Years of youth lasted 48 × 144 löar = 6,912 years
“Maturity” or standstill was not therefore reached till they were 6,984 years old.
“Fading” began at 13,896 years old.
[Picking up the ageing thing ca. 5 years later...
Increasing the time pregnant and the growth years a little (3 years and 3 to 1). Would solve the Maeglin problem.
In womb 3 years, full speech at 6. But are the 3 years counted as part of the 6 or seperate from it?
Is this a lowering of the end of 'youth' from 1 VI? Though making it higher than 1 XVII.]


3 XI Lives of the Númenóreans
c. 1965*
Thus (as the Eldar) they [Númenóreans] “grew” at much the same rate as ordinary Men: gestation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence up to puberty and “full-growth” proceeded more or less as before;
[this seems to imply a growth rate for Elves as back to 1 to 1, though the contemporaneous* 1 XVIII has a 3 to 1]
[*I now (03/26/25) wonder if the 1965 dating is correct, or if this might be earlier, in line with 1960 Description of Numenor, Aldarion & Erendis/Line of Elros texts]


V.T. 47 Eldarin Hands, Fingers and Numerals
c. 1968
Note 1: C.E. ? netthi C.E. tth > Q., T. tt; S. þþ > þ. nette meant ‘girl approaching the adult’ (in her “teens”: the growth of Elvish children after birth was little if at all slower than that of the children of Men). The Common Eldarin stem (wen-ed) wendē ‘maiden’ applied to all stages up to the fully adult (until marriage).
[a few years later and still 1 to 1]

1 XIX Elvish life-cycles
dated to c. 1969
TEXT 2
written on publishing calendars for February and March of 1970
Elves lived in life-cycles? sc. birth, childhood to bodily and mental maturity (as swift as that of Men) and then a period of parenthood (marriage, etc.) which could be delayed for a long time after maturity.
[1 to 1 growth rate]
 
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Tolkien parts I am particularly commenting on/or finding problematic are in green, CFH is in blue, my commentary in red.
From:
1 XI Ageing of Elves
But note [growth] rates doubled in 1496. Finduilas (the youngest Exile) was 12 in 1495. During 1496 she “grew” at a rate of 25 : 1. Therefore in 144/25 years she grew 6 years. She landed in Beleriand at 16. She then resumed the 50 : 1 growth-rate and needed 4 × 50 – 4 = 196 [sun-years] to complete maturity. She was therefore 20 in MY 196. In MY 502 she had lived 306 more years at 100 : 1 and so was 23.

If Findulas was 12, and during 1496 she grew at 25 to 1 ageing her 6 years (144/25= 5.76, rounding up), the last time I checked, that would mean she would be 18, not 16.
Am I missing something with the math?
Add 4 more years and she is (just under) 22. The 502 is an error, it should be 495. Tolkien may have been thinking of Idril.
In the event, it would be +3 years, making her (almost) 25.
However, as the mythology develops, Findulas is born in Beleriand to a Sindarin mother and thus this is unnecessary, though she would have the 'Maeglin problem'.


Idril should be also about 30 in Bel. 500. To be 30 in Bel. 500 required 2 [life-]years on journey [across the Ice from Aman to Middle-earth], 16 [life-]years at [growth rate] 12 : 1 = 192 [to reach maturity], and then 12 more [life-years] at 144 : 1.

The 'math' checks out. Female-elf matures at 18 and 12 more life years would be 30.

However, as Bel. 500 is only (just under) 3.5 life years, Idril would have to be (just over) 24.5 life years when she hit the Ice in 1496 (24.5+2+3.5=30). And a full grown adult Elf. Born 1224 years before. Not much younger than Galadriel or Aredhel.
Personally, when reading this: "
He [Turgon] had himself come near to death in the bitter waters when he attempted to save her [Elenwe] and his daughter Itaril, whom the breaking of treacherous ice had cast into the cruel sea" (PoMe, SoF), I got the impression that she was still a child.

The journey to Middle-earth [took] 144 [sun-]years but counted as 2 [life-]years: 144 + 192. We still have to alter the arrangement during the march from Aman in VY 1496.

I'm not sure what 'alter the arrangement' means. Maybe altering the dates in the Annals?

This occupied 144 sun-years; but it was so horrible that the mature aged at a double rate 2 [life-]years during that time. The immature should also have aged at a double rate, at 6 [sun-years] = 1 [growth-year].

So 6 instead of 12.

Thus an Elda going into exile in VY 1495 at 12 [growth-years]

This seems to mean turned 12 (shortly) before hitting the Ice.
I mean technically, using the 144 sun-years to a Valian Year, the child would be born right at the end of 1494/beginning of 1495.
Tolkien seems to have pictured Idril being a child as well.


would, by the end of the journey, if female, only require another 6 [growth] years for maturity = 36 [sun-years] and would therefore become 18 in SY 36 of VY 1496.

One fourth of the way into 1496 (VY1496-SY36), Idril is 18. This seems correct, which is why I don't get the Finduilas 12+6=16 thing above.

At the end of VY 1496 and arrival in Beleriand she would have had another 108 years at the 72 : 1 rate = 1½ [life-years] and therefore be 19½.

Checks out.

She would then resume the 144 : 1 rate and in Bel. 502 would be only 502/144 years older, or about 3½ [life-years]. She would be 23. This fits fairly well. If we make Idril 18 at Exile in 1495, she was then “mature” and lived rest of [her] life at 144 : 1 save the year of journey = 2 [life-years]. She was therefore 20 when she arrived in Beleriand, and in 502 would be 23½. If Idril was 20 at Exile she will be 25½ in Bel. 502

Changing Idril to an adult at the Exile/crossing only gets her 2 years older...
Now how come with Findulas above, the math is off?
Also, making Idril 20 at Exile makes her the same age as Aredhel and Galadriel.
And, as usual, I find the length of time to march to Beleriand absurd. Something like 5000 miles in what? 200 years? 144 crossing the Helcaraxe. Where did they get food and water? Must have spent a lot of time melting snow and ice...


3 XVI Concerning Galadriel & Celeborn
Amroth born S.A. 300. 2 in S.A. 588. In S.A. 1350 he was 29. In S.A. 1697 he was 31. In S.A. 3441 nearly 44 (43/117). In T.A. 1693 [he was] 11/109 older = 55/82.
These ages, however (with the exception of the first, being precisely 2 yéni after S.A. 300), cannot be reconciled with a yên of 144 solar years.
Yes they can.

The accounting of Amroth’s ages through the end of the Second Age in 3441 must refer rather to an apparent age, in terms of human maturation, not actual age in yéni (e.g., in S.A. 1350 Amroth would have been just over 7 yéni old, not 29; and in S.A. 3441 he would have been just under 22 yéni old, not 44). [6 This may explain why Tolkien has marked the ages 2, 29, and 31 with a “+”; but no such mark is made against the subsequent ages. But, T.A. 1693 is indeed 11 yéni + 109 sun-years later than S.A. 3441; so something in this accounting is awry, or at least inconsistent.]

The 2 in 588 is 2 yeni at the 12 to 1 maturation rate for Elves.
Amroth is thus 24 in SA 588.
In 1350 (revolt in Eregion, Celeborn and Galadriel head to Lorien with Amroth and Celebrian), he is:
1350-588=762/144= 5.3+24=29.3
In 1697 (fall of Eregion) he is:
1697-1350=347/144=2.4+29.3=31.7
In 3441 (end of Second Age) he is:
3441-1697=1744/144=12.1+31.7=43.8
In TA 1693 (???) he is:
1693/144=11.7+43.8=55.5

But what does TA1693 have to do with anything?


And back almost at the top:
1 IV Time-scales
An elven-child was borne in its mother’s womb for about the same (relative) time as a mortal child, that is for about ¾ of a “youth-year” = ¾ of 12 löar = 9 löar; [fn6 Actually, a length of time = Mortal 96 months or 8 years] though in the Quendi this period was more variable, often being less, and on rare occasions being more.
...one “growth-year” = 12 löar;


Why is this in the middle of a text which is otherwise a full 144 years for both growth and life years, as well as a 108 year pregnancy, text?
 
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Half-elves choosing to be accounted among Elves:
1 IX Time-scales and “rates of growth”
c. 1959
Some calculations
The rate of the Half-elven that chose to join the Quendi was evidently in Middle-earth 100 : 1. (For those who joined Men a special rate of growth was established, approximately 3 : 1, though this diminished, but was in Aragorn almost restored: he was 5 : 2).
Elrond. He was born 58 [sun-]years before the end of the First Age in the overthrow of Morgoth; but he was born in Middle-earth and so inherited from the beginning the rate 100 : 1. He lived then through the Second Age of Middle-earth: 3,441 years.
We see therefore that when he left Middle-earth he was 58 + 3,441 + 3,021 years old = 6,520. He was then in human terms just over 65 and still in full vigour.
At the Last Alliance he was 58 + 3,430 = 3,488 ÷ 100 = nearly 35. At his wedding he was 58 + 3,441 + 100 = 3,599 ÷ 100 = 36.
[This text is written with the 'quickening' of life-years (in Middle-earth). It is written in the context of the First Age ending in YS 590 and thus Elrond born in YS 532.
A few problems crop up.
It is calculated with the 100 : 1 throughout Elrond's life. This would make him (physically) 12 and Gil-galad's councillor and loremaster, and 17 when he leads the relief army sent by Gil-galad to Eregion, and then founds Imladris. Do-able I guess. Celebrian (born in SA 300 in this text) would be about 14 when Elrond falls in love with her.
However, Earendil and Elwing did not get to Aman until 542. Meaning Elrond would already be at least ten years old when the Doom of Manwe was pronounced. Since Earendil and Elwing married when they were ca. 25, they had to be growing at a 1 : 1 rate (until adulthood). Similarly Dior weds Nimloth when he is 27.
This indicates Elrond should be 27-28 at the time of the War of Elves and Sauron. Which would work. However, Celebrian is still 14
Even with this, a problem crops up with the First Age. Elrond, by the end of the First Age, is less than 1 year old following the text. Using my interpolation, he might be 11. Yet he was in the War of Wrath and there for the breaking of Thangorodrim (LotR, CoE).]


1 X Difficulties in Chronology
Eärendil obtained “long youth” for his sons and their immediate descendants. Elrond, an Elf, has 1,000-year youth; he was thus 20 in SA 1000 – 58 = 942. At end of TA he was in years 3,441 + 3,021 + 58 = 6,520 = 5,520 + 20 = 75. In [SA] 1697 [the founding of Rivendell] he was 27.

[This text still has a quickening and is decimal.
By having Earendil obtain this 'long youth' for Elrond and his children (50 : 1 until mature at 20, then 100 : 1), it does make Elrond of a more suitable age to be leading an army and founding Rivendell. As it is specifically for Earendil's more immediate descendants, it gets around the lack of continuity with Dior, Earendil and Elwing.
In this text, Elves born in outside Aman have a growth rate of 10 : 1 to maturity, and then 100 : 1.
That makes Celebrian, born in SA 350, 20 in 550, and approaching 32 when Elrond, 27, falls in love with her. Celebrian is 49 when they wed (TA 10 in this text), Elrond is 45. Or Celebrian is even older, going with the other birth year of 260. This is problematic as Tolkien repeatedly makes a point of having the elf-woman younger than the man.

Also it is still counting the 50 : 1 from birth and, as laid out above, Elrond would be 10 by the time this 'long youth' was obtained, and thus should be 20 only 500 years later in SA 458. Making him 32 when he founds Imladris, almost 50 at at the end of the Second Age and 80 when he departs Middle-earth. While that would fix the age 'problem' with Elrond and Celebrian, it still leaves Elrond as, maybe, eleven years old while in the War of Wrath.
While Tolkien does not lay it out, Elladan and Elrohir, under this variant, would be 'mature' (20) in TA 1139 and Arwen in 1241 (LotR 1st edition, the twins are born 139). And thus almost 39 and 38 at the end of the Age.]


1 XI Ageing of Elves
It dates from c. 1959
The Half-elven lived at the human rate. Eärendil was only 39 when he came to Valinor. He was not allowed to return to Middle-earth, but he obtained the grace (from Eru via Manwë) that his children, being half-elven on both sides – descendants of Idril and of Lúthien – should (a) have a choice of which kindred they would belong to, and (b) should in each kind have “a long and fair youth” – sc., should only slowly reach maturity – and that this should extend to the second generation: thus Elrond : Arwen and Elros : Vardamir.
To Elrond it was thus granted that he should return towards the ancient growth-rate: he reached maturity at 20 [life-years] only in 1,000 [sun-]years (rate 50 : 1). He was thus 20 in SA 1000 – 58 = [SA] 942. When sent by Gil-galad to the war in Eregion (SA 1695) he was therefore 20 + (1695-942)/100 = 27½ [life-years], which is suitable. At the end of the Second Age he was 20 + 25 = 45 [life-years] and at his wedding in TA 100 he was 46, only one year older than Celebrían (see above), which fits well. Elrond at the end of TA 3021 was thus about 75 [life-years], in full Elvish vigour.

[A quickening and decimal text.
This has the same problems regarding Elrond I have previously laid out above (he is already at least 10 when the 'special grace' would be granted), though Tolkien does fix the Celebrian problem by suggesting she could be born in SA 850 (after first suggesting 300) and possibly increasing her (and all Elves who have at least on parent born in Aman) maturation rate to 50 : 1 (making her 17 when Elrond falls in love with her).
Tolkien also tries two different growth rates for Arwen. the first like an Elf not born in Aman (in this text 10 : 1 to maturity) and the second as with Elrond (50 : 1 to maturity). He also writes these with Arwen's birth year being 341 rather than 241 (Tolkien is considering changing it).]


1 XVIII Elvish Ages & Númenórean
15/Aug/1965
Elrond. The “Half-elven” should age slower than ordinary Men, before the “doom” of the Valar was spoken. Probably at rate of 1 to 5 as for Elros, the only one who lived his life out as Half-elven. (Full growth being achieved at Elvish rate of 24 but reckoned in normal löar.)
Elrond was present (see LR I 256) at the fall of Thangorodrim. Eärendil his father wedded Elwing in FA 525, being then 23. Elrond [fn8 But dates are confused here.] may have been born about 527–530. He was thus at least 70 at the fall of Thangorodrim in c. FA 600. But this would be the [mortal] equivalent of 24 + 46/5 = approximately 33.
He was made Elven soon after, and would then slow down to the Elvish rate of 144 SY = 1 life-year.

[A duodecimal and 'no quickening' text (except for that 1 : 5 for (mortal) Half-elves).
Earendil being 23 when he marries Elwing suggests counting from conception rather than birth (born in 503)
If so, by implication this would make Dior (born YS 470) full grown (24) in 493 and almost 25 when he marries Nimloth (497); 25 when Elured and Elurin (500) are born and 26 when Elwing (503) is born (an at least 3 sun-year ("seldom less") "resting-time" for elf-women, and usually 6 sun-years between births is noted), and when he is slain (YS 506).
Earendil and Elwing, born in 503, are 23 when they marry in 525 (the ToY dates have 527>530 in C, while D2 has 525). They would be 24 and 'full-grown' in 526. Unless Tolkien was considering changing the dates or the 23 is a slip.
In the event, in 542 when they reach Aman, they are about 27 in life-years.
The ca. 600 at the Fall of Thangorodrim seems to be based off the (unmodified) A and/or B ToYs which have Thangordrim falling in YS 597 and the First Age ending in YS 600 (changed in B to 587 and 590).
Taking that into account, Elrond would be about LY 32 at the end of the First Age. Interestingly, either variant makes him 'older' than Galadriel, who would be about 28.]


==========
Mortal half-elves/Numenoreans:


Average life of a Númenorean
210 years (3 × 70)
Average life of royal house
350 years (5 × 70)
A King of Númenor usually acceded when about 100–120 and ruled about 250 years
[&]
Average life of a Númenórean before the fall was about 210 years (3×70). Average life of the royal house of the line of Earendel was about 350 years (5×70). A king of Númenor usually came to the throne when about 120 years old and reigned 200 years or more.

The first is from "Time Scheme", the second from "Of the Tale of Years in the latter ages". These seem the earliest ageing schemes for Numenoreans.

1 IX Time-scales and “rates of growth”
c. 1959
Some calculations
The rate of the Half-elven [...] who joined Men a special rate of growth was established, approximately 3 : 1, though this diminished, but was in Aragorn almost restored: he was 5 : 2).
Now Aragorn was born in TA 2931, but lived until 4A 100, and was then of full age, but not yet becoming senile. His years were then 190. He was the “last of the Númenóreans”, and his span was equal to the Kings of Men of old (as is said): thrice that of ordinary Men. Actually, his rate was probably rather 5 : 2 than 3 : 1: so that he was at his wedding in TA 3019 in years 88, in age 35; and at death in years 190, in age 75. (The full Númenórean rate would make him 29 at his wedding and 63 at death.)
[This is still 1st edition LotR, hence Aragorn dies at age 190. Per this text Arwen is almost 28, and thus 'younger' than Aragorn when they wed.
No mention of Elros, but following these calculations, and the precedent set by Elrond above (100 : 1), he would be less than 1 year old at the end of the First Age. And less than 1 when he made his choice. Or, using my interpolation aged like a mortal until about 10-11, made his choice, and then 3 : 1.]

[In the margin against this paragraph, Tolkien wrote]:

Aragorn grew up [to] adult[hood] in [the] normal rate, he was adult at 20. He then [?endured] at Númenórean rate of 3 : 1. So when 49 in [sun-]years he was 20 + 29/3 = about 30 in [?fact].
[This brief marginal comment gets expanded on in later texts.]

1 XI Ageing of Elves
dates from c. 1959
Aragorn was 20 in 2951, 49 in 2980, and at their wedding 88. But it seems probable that Aragorn’s life was similarly arranged: thus he grew to maturity as quick as the normal human rate, and then slowed to the Númenórean ageing rate of 3 : 1. He was thus 20 in 2951; but in 2980, 20 + 29/3 = about 30; at wedding 20 + 68/3 = nearly 43 (and so close in age to Arwen); at death he was 190 = 20 + 170/3 = nearly 77.

Eldarion was mortal and was not by promise included in the “grace of Eärendil”, but he had in fact a long youth: which took the form of remaining like a young man from maturity at 20 until 60 without change. He then lived another 65 years: making him 125, but in life-age 20 + 65 = 85. His descendants became normal, but long-lived (80–90).

[Tolkien adopts the 3 : 1 (post 'maturity' at 20) for Aragorn here, but his changes for Elves in this text make the half-elven Arwen older than Aragorn when they marry (she is almost 45).
As noted above, Tolkien attempts another ageing scheme for Arwen in this text, which makes her almost 37 at her wedding. Thus 'younger' than Aragorn by 5 years.
Interestingly, Eldarion (who in this iteration rules for 25 years (Aragorn dies in 4A 100, Eldarion in 4A 125)), outlives Aragorn by 8 life-years, and his descendants by do so by 5 to 15. Perhaps due to not voluntarily dying, perhaps due to the renewed Elvish strain from Arwen. Later, in Letter 338, Tolkien indicates the end of Eldarion's reign was about 100 years after Aragorn's death (in 4A 120).
If Tolkien still intended on Eldarion being born in 4th Age 1, then Eldarion must have been older than Aragorn when he died (at least ca. 220).]

[I will lay this one out separately]:

Elros had the Númenórean scale of life, 3 : 1. But the grace of “long youth” took the form of doubling this. He thus should have become “mature” at 60, but in fact became so at 120: he then lived at the Númenórean rate and died at the age of 500 (voluntarily and therefore not at very great age. He was therefore actually in life-age 20 + (500-120)/3 = 20 + 127 = 147. Vardamir lived to be 391 and so was little more than normal Númenórean age (300). Succeeding kings lived for about 400 years until Queen Vanimeldë (the 16th ruler): mostly because after maturity they remained “young” for a long time.
[To my mind, this still has the problem I laid out with Elrond initially in these 1959 texts, where Elrond and Elros being born 10+ years before the Doom of Manwe is not accounted for.
If Elros is born 58 years before the end of the First Age, he is 120 (= 20 and thus mature) in SA 62, however, the Edain go to Numenor, and Elros is seemingly king, in SA 32. Elros is 90 = 15. In UT, Line of Elros: "The Realm of Númenor is held to have begun in the thirty-second year of the Second Age, when Elros son of Earendil ascended the throne in the City of Armenelos, being then ninety years of age."; also his son Vardamir is said to have been born in TA 61 and dies in 471. That may indicate that in this conception, Vardamir was born in SA 80. Dying at 391, he is about 130 life-years (dying at 410 gets him to almost 137). That presumes a 3 : 1 from birth. If Tolkien intended 1 : 1 until maturity, then Vardamir would be nearing 144 or 150.

Elsewhere (in later writings, see below) Elros is said to have the same physical potential for life as Elrond (thus voluntarily dying "not at a very great age" may be understandable, even though he is about 14 years older in life years than the about 400 years (=133 life-years) or the same age (400 = almost 147) for the Royal line).
Numenoreans who are not descendants of Elros have lifespan of about 300 years, thus either 100 life years, or 113 life-years.]


Elvish Ages & Númenórean
15/Aug/1965
The “Half-elven” should age slower than ordinary Men, before the “doom” of the Valar was spoken. Probably at rate of 1 to 5 as for Elros, the only one who lived his life out as Half-elven. (Full growth being achieved at Elvish rate of 24 but reckoned in normal löar).
[I'm not going to quote the long passages about Arwen and Aragorn, ultimately they both fit into the scheme below]:
The Númenörean scale fixed by the Valar (for other than Elros) was for a life in full (if not “resigned” earlier) of thrice that of ordinary men. This was reckoned so: A “Númenórean” reached “full-growth” at 24 (as with Elves; but this was for them reckoned in Sun-years); after that, 70 × 3 = 210 years were “permitted” = total 234. But decline set in (at first slow) at the 210th year (from birth); so that a Númenórean had an expectation of 186 fully active years after reaching physical maturity.
[Tolkien seems to have conclusively dropped the more complicated 6 : 1 then 3 : 1, and the 5 : 2, settling on a straight 5 : 1 and 3 : 1.
With the 2nd edition of LotR, Aragorn resigned his life at 210 years old in 4A 120. He could have lived another 24 years, but would have become, at least physically, decrepit rapidly. Arwen resigns her life the next year, though she could have lived until 4A 151.
Elros maturing at 24 sun-years fixes the problems I noted previously regarding him (and Elrond) being at least 10 years old by the time the doom of Manwe is pronounced. In the event, Elros is 24 in ca. FA 556 and then ages at 5 : 1 after that. When he dies at 500 years old, he is almost 120 life-years.
Reading
"for other than Elros" literally, that would mean no one even in the royal line were permitted more than 234 years (cf LotR App. A: "For though a long span of life had been granted to them, in the beginning thrice that of lesser Men...").
Unless Tolkien is 'short-handing' that phrase for 'Elros and his descendants', that could require a readjustment and expansion of the royal line. The first king of Numenor who lives even less that 250 years is XXI Ar-Zimrathôn who lived 235 years (they start dropping below 300 with XIX Tar-Ardamin (per The Line of Elros in UT).
CT seems to agree with the reading that not just Elros, but his descendants have the extended lifespan:
"...in an isolated note the difference in longevity is given a precise range: the ‘end of vigour’ for the descendants of Elros came (before the waning of their life-span set in) about the four hundredth year, or somewhat earlier, whereas for those not of that line it came towards the two hundredth year, or somewhat later." (UT, Line of Elros, note 1)
This text is broadly in agreement with LotR, the Akallabeth as published in The Silmarillion, and Line of Elros as well as Aldarion and Erendis, Erendis a 'common' Numenorean was born in SA 771 (UT, A&E, Chronology) and, in her "old age" "‘Erendis perished in water in the year 985’". Erendis was 214]

As I mentioned it above:

The (published) Akallabêth
Tolkien, in Letter 276 (the Plotz letter) Sept. 1965, says the Akallabêth is "fully written"
But to Elros, who chose to be a king of Men, still a great span of years was allotted, many times that of the Men of Middle-earth; and all his line, the kings and lords of the royal house, had long life even according to the measure of the Númenóreans. But Elros lived five hundred years, and ruled the Númenóreans four hundred years and ten.

Per PoMe, History of the Akallabeth, that part in all texts reads:
But to Elros, who chose to be a king of Men, still a great span of years was allotted, seven times that of the Men of Middle-earth; and all his line, the kings and lords of the royal house, had long life even according to the measure of the Númenóreans. But Elros lived five hundred years, and ruled the Númenóreans four hundred years and ten.
[Along with his editorial change, CT notes:
"...on one copy of C my father changed ‘seven’ to ‘three’ and placed an X against the statement that Elros lived for five hundred years..."
The change to 3 times for Elros would really mess up the dates, family tree etc. Even granting Elros a 250 year lifespan means he dies in the same year Amandil, who (de facto) inherits the kingship from him, is born. In the event, nothing seems to have come of it.
I wonder what Tolkien was thinking there?]


Lives of the Númenóreans
c. 1965*
Elros was treated specially. He and his brother Elrond were not actually differently endowed, so far as the purely physical potentiality of life was concerned; but since Elros elected to remain among the kindred of Men, he retained the chief human characteristic as compared with the Quendi: the “seeking elsewhither”, as the Eldar called it, the “weariness” or desire to depart from the World. He died, or resigned life, when he was about 500 years old.
The remainder of the people were granted a life-span about five times as long as that of ordinary Men: that is, they would die, whether by free resignation or not, somewhere within the limits of 350 to 420 years. Within these limits individuals, and also families, [Author’s Note 1 The people of Bëor were on the whole dark-haired (though fair-skinned), less tall and of less stalwart build; they were also less long-lived. Their Númenórean descendants tended to have a smaller life-span: about 350 years or less] differed in natural life-span, as they did before the Grace was given. The royal family or “Line of Elros” was in general longeval, and often lived for 400 years or a little more. In other families 400 years was less often achieved; though in families who had become allied with the Line of Elros by marriage (in the earlier generations) longeval individuals often appeared.
By this is meant that the “weariness” was not felt by the longeval until about the 400th year; how long they might have lived on into decrepitude, if they had “clung to life”, is not known, because in the early generations they did not do so.

[It is interesting here that Tolkien wants to increase the life-span of all Numenoreans to 5 : 1. The distinction between the Royal line and other Numenoreans is greatly diminished, and it contradicts LotR (CT also notes this in his commentary on Line of Elros in UT).
Even with the lesser lifespan of the Beorean descendants (ca. 350 years), it seems a bit off. As noted above, in Aldarion and Erendis, Erendis is old at 214, and this is still 'early' in the Numenor's history.]


Thus, if a Númenórean reached the end of vigour at about 400 years, he would then pass quickly, in about ten years, from health and vigour of mind to decrepitude and senility.
If one wishes, therefore, to find what “age” a Númenórean was in ordinary human terms of vigour and aptitude, this may be done so: (1) Deduct 20: since at 20 years a Númenórean would be at about the same stage of development as an ordinary person. (2) Add to this 20 the remainder divided by 5.
[Elros, under this scheme, would die when he was 116 life-years old. Vardamir would be 91. Aldarion almost 96, Ancalime 98.
Atanamir, the first King to not surrender the sceptre, nor resign his life willingly has two different death dates, 2221 and 2251. CT thinks the second is correct (see UT, Line of Elros, note 10) and more recent editions of LotR have been corrected to that reading. In the event, he would have died at either 104 or 110]


The Ageing of Númenóreans
c. 1965*
------------------------Númenóreans--------Line of Elros
Manhood---------------20------------------------20
Full-growth-------------25------------------------25 – 30
Youth-------------------25 – 125 (or later)-------25 – 200 (or later)
Vigour------------------25 – 175 (or later)-------25 – 300 (or later)
Coming of weariness---200 – 225 (or later)-----350 – 400 (or a little later)

------------------------Númenóreans----------Line of Elros
Manhood--------------20------------------------25
Full-growth------------25------------------------25 – 30
Maturity--------------c.50---------------------c.100 – 150
Youth-------------------25 to 125 (or later)-----25 to 200 (or later)
Vigour------------------25 to 175 (or later)-----25 to 300 (or later)
Coming of weariness-200 (or later: -----------c.400 (or a little later)
--------------------------seldom later than 250)
[In this text 'apparently written in conjunction' with the previous, Tolkien is back to the Royal line having a much greater lifespan than the common Numenoreans (5 : 1 vs 3: 1), and thus more in keeping with Elvish Ages & Númenórean, LotR, Akallabeth, Aldarion and Erendis, and Line of Elros. The first of the ruling line to die near age 350 is XVI Tar-Vanimeldë, the third ruling Queen who died at 360 (life-years 88).]
Edit:
[*I now (03/26/25) wonder if the 1965 dating is correct, or if this might be earlier, in line with 1960 Description of Numenor, Aldarion & Erendis/Line of Elros texts]
 
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Wow, thanks for taking the time to compile all this! I don't have time to read it all just yet but I definitely will keep it in mind as a reference.
 
Makes me wonder how JRRT could do all of this without getting a migraine. Proof positive of his self-description as a "natural niggler", absolutely world-class (outside of the profession of accounting).
 
Makes me wonder how JRRT could do all of this without getting a migraine. Proof positive of his self-description as a "natural niggler", absolutely world-class (outside of the profession of accounting).
And he was doing the math longhand. No calculator...
===
Updated the second post which I had marked as reserve.
 
Thank you, Tar-Elenion, for your hard work pulling this together.

I guess I'll have to pick which aging variant I want. It definitely won't be one where the female is pregnant for 9 years. I hope some mothers set him straight on what a bad idea that would be.
 
I guess I'll have to pick which aging variant I want. It definitely won't be one where the female is pregnant for 9 years. I hope some mothers set him straight on what a bad idea that would be.
I was thinking the exact same thing!! I don't think poor Nerdanel should have to be pregnant for a total of 54 years, that's just horrible!
 
Thank you, Tar-Elenion, for your hard work pulling this together.

I guess I'll have to pick which aging variant I want. It definitely won't be one where the female is pregnant for 9 years. I hope some mothers set him straight on what a bad idea that would be.
I take it then, that the 144 year or 108 year pregnancy variants are right out...
And a couple decades or centuries of changing diapers and nursing....
Some of the texts have much shorter pregnancies (1 sun-year, or 3)

I will note, however, that Tolkien wrote:
"During all this time the parents are aware of the growth of the unborn child, and live in much longer and more deeply-felt joy and expectation; for childbirth is not among the Eldar accompanied by pain. It is nonetheless not an easy or light matter, for it is achieved by a much greater expense of the vigour of hröa and fëa (of “youth” as the Eldar say) than is usual among Men; and is followed after the begetting by a time of quiescence and withdrawal."
NoMe, 1 IV Time-scales
 
What I am gathering from all this, and similar threads, is that I really need to get my hands on HoMe and NoMe.
 
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I will note, however, that Tolkien wrote:
"During all this time the parents are aware of the growth of the unborn child, and live in much longer and more deeply-felt joy and expectation; for childbirth is not among the Eldar accompanied by pain. It is nonetheless not an easy or light matter, for it is achieved by a much greater expense of the vigour of hröa and fëa (of “youth” as the Eldar say) than is usual among Men; and is followed after the begetting by a time of quiescence and withdrawal."
NoMe, 1 IV Time-scales
You can tell it's a man talking. Deeply felt joy and expectation is part of pregnancy, but so is back pain, swollen feet, fatigue, etc.
 
Excellent as ever Tar-E.

In a recent post (elsewhere) with respect to Tolkien's later ideas, I almost quoted Lives of the Númenóreans (c. 1965), about which you say (and I agree with): "this seems to imply a growth rate
for Elves as back to 1 to 1, though the contemporaneous 1 VII has a 3 to 1"
. . .

. . . but I deleted it 'cause I've yet to read (!) most of the Númenórean texts in NOME, and so I worried if anyone could emphasize the quote like this: "thus (as the Eldar) they [Númenóreans] “grew” at much the same rate as ordinary Men: gestation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence up to puberty and “full-growth” proceeded more or less as before . . ."

And then that someone could go on to say that the Elves and the Numenoreans were still "some degree" slower than ordinary Men. I take it that such hair-splitting is not possible even given these texts (that I've yet to read)?

Or possibly you have chosen not to split this hair, meaning, even if there's some arguable evidence of a degree of "slower-ness" compared to ordinary Men, it doesn't lead to a specific numerical rate that one can put forth.

Or my question doesn't make sense in any case.

For myself, "as swift as that of Men" (Elvish life-cycles c. 1969) is going to win out anyway, but as it's my birthday I thought I would post . . .

. . . something!
 
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Excellent as ever Tar-E.

<Bows>
In a recent post (elsewhere) with respect to Tolkien's later ideas,
If I may ask, where?

I almost quoted Lives of the Númenóreans (c. 1965), about which you say (and I agree with): "this seems to imply a growth rate for Elves as back to 1 to 1, though the contemporaneous 1 VII has a 3 to 1" . . .

. . . but I deleted it 'cause I've yet to read (!) most of the Númenórean texts in NOME, and so I worried if anyone could emphasize the quote like this: "thus (as the Eldar) they [Númenóreans] “grew” at much the same rate as ordinary Men: gestation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence up to puberty and “full-growth” proceeded more or less as before . . ."

And then that someone could go on to say that the Elves and the Numenoreans were still "some degree" slower than ordinary Men. I take it that such hair-splitting is not possible even given these texts (that I've yet to read)?

Or possibly you have chosen not to split this hair, meaning, even if there's some arguable evidence of a degree of "slower-ness" compared to ordinary Men, it doesn't lead to a specific numerical rate that one can put forth.

I will admit, I was tempted to split hairs in favour of it still being an increased length of childhood to adulthood (for Elves), and Tolkien just making a more general comparative statement regarding stages rather than actual years (for Elves). Particularly since the two texts are contemporaneous, and there is not any obvious flaw that needs to be worked around (with the 3 to 1, he would not even need to change Maeglin's birth year, and the 3 year pregnancy fits in with Aredhel being taken to wife in 317 and Maeglin born in 320), and the 'manhood' and 'full growth', particularly for the Line of Elros in Ageing of the Numenoreans Text 2, are a little later than might be expected among more common Men.
But I don't know that I could make much of a coherent argument, because...

Or my question doesn't make sense in any case.

For myself, "as swift as that of Men" (Elvish life-cycles c. 1969) is going to win out anyway,
...the 'nette' and 'life-cycles' texts were coming next.


but as it's my birthday I thought I would post . . .

. . . something!
Happy birthday!

I keep thinking I am missing/forgetting some 'ageing' tidbit in another VT or PE (or even HoMe).
Can you recall anything off hand?
 
If I may ask, where?

In a recently resurrected thread (resurrected by me, for a silly reason), titled Elves "coming of Age", post 16.

I will admit, I was tempted to split hairs in favour of it still being an increased length of childhood to adulthood (for Elves), and Tolkien just making a more general comparative statement regarding stages rather than actual years (for Elves). (edit good stuff for brevity) particularly for the Line of Elros in Ageing of the Numenoreans Text 2, are a little later than might be expected among more common Men.

Makes sense. I did see some numbers in this text (Ageing of the Numenoreans) that I wondered about, but as I haven't reached this point in my reading (to possibly explain the numbers in more depth), I figured I'd bother you instead.

But I don't know that I could make much of a coherent argument, because . . . the 'nette' and 'life-cycles' texts were coming next.

Understood. Thanks.

Happy birthday! I keep thinking I am missing/forgetting some 'ageing' tidbit in another VT or PE (or even HoMe). Can you recall anything off hand?

Thanks on the birthday wish Tar-E!

Hmm. All I can think of at the moment is a smallish tidbit from the Athrabeth, which, depending upon interpretation, could be (?) "sort of" relevant; and the only reason I even remember it is 'cause I used to sometimes foonote it in my pre-NOME posts on Elven ageing.

I recall comparing the following quote to what's said in Laws And Customs as well as what's said in Aman, and trying to guess at scenarios. Anyway, for what it's worth:

"This I can well believe," said Finrod: "That your bodies suffer in some measure the malice of Melkor. For you live in Arda Marred, as do we, and all the matter of Arda is tainted by him, before ye or we came forth and drew our hroar and their sustenance therefrom: all save only Aman before he came there. For know it is not otherwise with the Quendi themselves: their health and stature is diminished. Already those of us who dwell in Middle-earth, and even we who have returned to it, find that the change* [*the word change was an emendation to the typescript B (only); the manuscript has growth -- footnote by CJRT] of their bodies is swifter than in the beginning. And that, I judge, must forebode that they will prove less strong to last than they were designed to be, though this may not be clearly revealed for many long years."Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth (and see Author's note 7 on the Commentary).

Kinda vague and probably not what you're looking for, but back then, in the "old days", I couldn't know what NOME had in store regarding this!

:)

Oh yes, and LOL on the chicken, Old Ent!
 
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"Already those of us who dwell in Middle-earth, and even we who have returned to it, find that the change* [*the word change was an emendation to the typescript B (only); the manuscript has growth -- footnote by CJRT] of their bodies is swifter than in the beginning. And that, I judge, must forebode that they will prove less strong to last than they were designed to be, though this may not be clearly revealed for many long years."Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth (and see Author's note 7 on the Commentary).

Kinda vague and probably not what you're looking for, but back then, in the "old days", I couldn't know what NOME had in store regarding this!
Yeah, not really what I was looking for. This seems to be in line with the 'quickening' variants, that Tolkien decided against.

=============
I posted in the third post (which I marked 'reserve') of this thread the Half-elven/Numenorean aging variants.
 
I cannot find the EDIT button, and I want to edit my first post in which I have Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn tentatively dated to 1959.
I am now inclined to date it to 1960, and place it immediately after 1 VI The Awaking of the Quendi, based on CT's statements in PoMe ("in any case Aldarion and Erendis and the closely related Description of Númenor preceded by some time (I would now be inclined to date them to about 1960)", Shibboleth, The parentage of Gil-galad); and that the origin story of Galadriel bringing the mallorn-trees to Lorien (note 5 in UT, History of Galadriel and Celeborn "Both here and elsewhere the meaning of the name is explained by reference to the golden mallorn-trees of Lothlórien; but they were brought there by Galadriel (for the story of their origin see pp. 216 – 17), is found in the Description text ("some were given as a gift by Tar-Aldarion, the sixth King of Númenor, to King Gil-galad of Lindon. They did not take root in that land; but Gil-galad gave some to his kinswoman Galadriel, and under her power they grew and flourished in the guarded land of Lothlórien").
 
I cannot find the EDIT button, and I want to edit my first post in which I have Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn tentatively dated to 1959.
I am now inclined to date it to 1960, and place it immediately after 1 VI The Awaking of the Quendi, based on CT's statements in PoMe ("in any case Aldarion and Erendis and the closely related Description of Númenor preceded by some time (I would now be inclined to date them to about 1960)", Shibboleth, The parentage of Gil-galad); and that the origin story of Galadriel bringing the mallorn-trees to Lorien (note 5 in UT, History of Galadriel and Celeborn "Both here and elsewhere the meaning of the name is explained by reference to the golden mallorn-trees of Lothlórien; but they were brought there by Galadriel (for the story of their origin see pp. 216 – 17), is found in the Description text ("some were given as a gift by Tar-Aldarion, the sixth King of Númenor, to King Gil-galad of Lindon. They did not take root in that land; but Gil-galad gave some to his kinswoman Galadriel, and under her power they grew and flourished in the guarded land of Lothlórien").
Can you check again if you have the edit button? may need to log out and back in
 

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