🧝Galadriel article - Tolkiengateway is not trustworthy

[TheManInTheMoon]

I checked Galadriel's page and it was a literal disaster of misinformation. They are presenting those 'lore' as canon even though they are just all discarded and passing ideas of Tolkien. Not only that, they even sometimes make up their own stuff which have no basis in Tolkien. Not to even mention they have not mentioned large pivotal parts of Galadriel history.

Let's see what they have presented in Galadriel page:

In Tolkiengateway Galadriel's birthplace in Tirion, but this is nowhere explicitly stated by Tolkien, in Annals of Aman it's only stated she was born in Eldamar, this makes it possible that her birth place was either in Tirion or Alqualondë. Which one? It is open and depends on the reader's take.

"Though the source of her hair colour was from her father and her foremother Indis, it was said among the Eldar that her hair had captured the light of the Two Trees in Valinor, which resulted a unique and dazzling colour of gold and silver." - Tolkiengateway (TG)

The above passage in TG is sourced to The Peoples of Middle-earth, "XI. The Shibboleth of Fëanor". But in Shibboleth essay it's actually stated her hair "**was golden like the hair of her father and her foremother Indis, but richer and more radiant, for its gold was touched by some memory of the star-like silver of her mother**". TG however phrases it like Eldar claim that her hair shone both silver and gold is false and her hair was actually only golden. This is confusing early ideas of Tolkien with their actual source (Shibboleth of Feanor written in 1968) and other later writings of Tolkien such as a letter which he wrote in 1973. "...she had long
hair which glistened like gold but was also shot with silver. She was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats." - a letter to Mrs Catharine Findlay 6 March 1973

"During the Darkening of Valinor, she was very independent and visionary. She swore no oaths, but the words of Fëanor concerning Middle-earth kindled a desire in her heart, as she was eager to see those wide unguarded lands and rule a realm of her own." - TG

This isn't strictly inaccurate, but TG is missing to mention she already had such desire since the Strife of the Noldor, and that Feanor's speech kindled in her heart because she was already long corrupt, as can be seen in the Shibboleth chapter. Also they are missing here to mention she was also motivated because of her kinship with Sindar (who needed aid against Morgoth).

The Years of the Trees section of Galadriel page in TG is wholly missing to mention she was a chief leader during the entire Rebellion and Flight of the Noldor and she was uncontrollably moved by her excessive pride and rejected every warning and message of the Valar. This is the chief characterization of Galadriel especially in later versions. Her character arc is greatly about overcoming her pride. You know, mentioning those stuff is necessary to understand why she did what she did. (There's a glimpse into her characterization in Characterization section but I think it's just not enough and more details and elaboration was necessary)

Also her surviving the Battle of the Lammoth is completely missing in Tolkiengateway.

"Galadriel did not go with him and remained in Doriath with her husband, though she occasionally visited her brother in Nargothrond." - TG

Celeborn wasn't her husband in the versions where he was a Prince of Doriath. He was her boyfriend and later fiance. They only married in the Second Age long after Doriath was destroyed. Look up Galadriel and Celeborn in the Nature of Middle-earth book to see more details about this.

In the published Silmarillion Christopher Tolkien used a version of Galadriel where she only once visited Nargothrond. It's never again stated she visited there again, as opposed to what Tolkiengateway claims. And apparently JRR Tolkien himself had rejected the idea that she ever visited Nargothrond, as can be seen in both Later Quenta Silmarillion 1 and 2: "Galadriel his sister went never to Nargothrond," and "Galadriel his sister dwelt neverin Nargothrond, but remained in Doriath and received the love of Melian,"

"Presumably, she returned to Doriath to live with her husband." - TG

Again, Galadriel never went to live in Nargothrond in Later Quenta Silmarillion. And in the version where she had done that, it's pointed out she did return, since it's said her dwelling in Nargothrond was only for a while, and see also the Grey Annals Year 420 where Melian foretells about coming of Beren to Galadriel (this part is also published in Silmarillion).

Also the fact that they have missed to mention Galadriel was a loremaster and athelete and "a pupil of Aulë and Yavanna in Valinor" and "a handmaid of Melian the Immortal in the realm of Doriath" and "of her learned great wisdom and lore" is significant. By far Galadriel in TG is just bland, we don't even know her talents if we only read TG.

"Galadriel and Celeborn did not have any significant role in the general course of events in the War of the Jewels. It is said that even before the Fall of Nargothrond (F.A. 495), she passed over the mountains to [5] Eriador, far from the turmoil of the last years of the First Age." - TG

This passage in TG is sourced to The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, "The Mirror of Galadriel". But the problem is, in FotR Celeborn wasn't even ever present in Beleriand. Celeborn was not a Prince of Doriath according to FotR, he had never even been into Doriath, and Galadriel had never met him there. I'd let Tolkien's son himself explain this radically different versions:

"There is no part of the history of Middle-earth more full of problems than the story of Galadriel and Celeborn, and it must be admitted that there are severe inconsistencies "embedded in the traditions"; or, to look at the matter from another point of view, that the role and importance of Galadriel only emerged slowly, and that her story underwent continual refashionings.

Thus, at the outset, it is certain that the earlier conception was that Galadriel went east over the mountains from Beleriand alone, before the end of the First Age, and met Celeborn in his own land of Lórien; this is explicitly stated in unpublished writing, and the same idea underlies Galadriel's words to Frodo in The Fellowship of the Ring II 7, where she says of Celeborn that "He has dwelt in the West since the days of dawn, and I have dwelt with him years uncounted; for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains, and together through ages of the world we have fought the long defeat." In all probability Celeborn was in this conception a Nandorin Elf (that is, one of the Teleri who refused to cross the Misty Mountains on the Great Journey from Cuiviénen).

On the other hand, in Appendix B to The Lord of the Rings appears a later version of the story; for it is stated there that at the beginning of the Second Age "In Lindon south of the Lune dwelt for a time Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol; his wife was Galadriel, greatest of Elven women." And in the notes to The Road Goes Ever On (1968, p. 60) it is said that Galadriel "passed over the Mountains of Eredluin with her husband Celeborn (one of the Sindar) and went to Eregion." "

So in the versions where Celeborn is a Prince of the Sindar of Doriath Galadriel was actually in Beleriand until the end of it, meaning she had gone through the Ruin of Doriath and the rescue of Elwing with the Silmaril, defending Elwing in the Third Kinslaying, the War of Wrath and the final overthrown of Morgoth in this war. It can be said Tolkien contradicted himself, but not necessarily, I think it's possible to reconcile Galadriel's statement in FotR with Appendix and RGEO (which were published by Tolkien himself) and other writings of Tolkien (which were published by his scholars). Firstly, Galadriel doesn't specify which mountains she crossed, therefore the mountains can refer to any mountains in Aman and North West of Middle-earth, and secondly, Galadriel is oversimplifying the timeline by saying 'ere the fall of Nargothrond', this event of the Fall of Nargothrond is a definite point that even the slightly educated people (such as Pippin) in the lore of the Elder Days can understand that it's a long long time ago. In other word, ere the Fall of Nargothrond is a term used in-universe by some people to refer to a long long time ago especially when talking to people who are not masters of lore of the First Age.

"After the War of Wrath and the overthrow of Morgoth, she chose to remain with Celeborn, who would not leave Middle-earth, but also because she was one of those eager to explore Middle-earth from the beginning.[13] " - TG

I checked their source and saw it's again from an early version. One of Tolkien scholars dated Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn draft to around late 1950s, and although Tolkien's son himself didn't date this writing he agreed that it's from a early years and too many things in this draft were discarded. Although the passage from TG is not strictly inaccurate, but it's missing to mention her chief and dominant reason of rejecting the pardon of the Valar in later versions is always because of her pride. This is too many times stated in later writings, for instance in Shibboleth it's stated: "**Pride still moved her when, at the end of the Elder Days after the final overthrow of Morgoth, she refused the pardon of the Valar for all who had fought against him, and remained in Middle-earth**."

"Celeborn ruled over the fiefdom of Harlindon .. Eventually, the couple crossed into Eriador with many Noldor in their following. Together with Sindar and Green-elves, they dwelt in the country about Lake Nenuial" - TG

TG is literally contradicting themselves, again. Celeborn ruling Harlindon is from the version where he was a Sinda who had gone through the War of the Jewels until the end of it, with his fiancee Galadriel, and after Beleriand sank into the Sea they setlled in Lindon/Harlindon. TG however is confusing and merging two wholly different versions together.

TG says by the year 300 SA Galadriel and Celeborn lived at Lake Nenuial. This is just from a draft and abandoned notes dated to later years of 1950s. This has no basis in what Tolkien himself published.

In LotR Appendix (revised edition) he published: In Second Age " In Lindon south of the Lune dwelt for a time Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol; his wife was Galadriel.... Later some of the Noldor went to Eregion, upon the west of the Misty Mountains .... 750 Eregion founded by the Noldor." And in the subsequent year Tolkien published in the Notes to Road Goes Ever On: "She passed over the Mountains of Ered Luin with her husband Celeborn (one of the Sindar) and went to Eregion."

Meaning, Galadriel and Celeborn were there ruling Harlindon until 750 SA when they left and went to Eregion.

"They departed [from the Lake] for Eregion and arrived there by S.A. 750.[13][14] It was ruled by Celebrimbor, grandson of Fëanor and distant cousin of Galadriel." - TG

This kinda makes it look like they arrived to Eregion when it was already established, and TG is missing to mention Galadriel and Celeborn had a chief part in establishing Eregion, alongside their bestfriend Celebrimbor. Also TG is missing to point out almost the entire narrative of Galadriel in Eregion. There's almost no mention of her narrative with Dwarves, and her part against Sauron In Disguise.

"It was only sometime between S.A. 1350 and 1400 did she cross the Hithaeglir through Khazad-dûm and relocated to there with Celebrían becoming great among the Wood-elves.[13]" - TG

Again, discarded idea from Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn (1959). In 1960s writings, published in Unfinished Tales, Parma Eldalamberon 17, and Nature of Middle-earth, it is stated too many times: “Galadriel and Celeborn, and their followers, who after the destruction of Eregion [in the year 1697] passed through Moria” “Galadriel and Celeborn only retreated thither [to Lorien] after the downfall of Eregion." “... "domination" of Galadriel and Celeborn ..." In Lorien. "...after the Fall of Eregion... They had passed through Moria with considerable following of Noldorin Exiles and dwelt for many years in Lorien” and as Christopher elaborates in a writing from much the same time it is implied "after Eregion's fall Celeborn led this migration into Lorien while Galadriel joined Gil-Galad in Lindon."

Galadriel was a total badass in the entire narrative of Forging of the Rings and the War of the Elves and Sauron, even in the earlier version where she wasn't personally in the battlefield, yet TG has selected to not mention any of it.

"By the power of Nenya, the realm of Lórinand was strengthened and made beautiful." - TG

Why is this passage in Second Age timeline? Christopher Tolkien points out Galadriel using Nenya in Second Age was a slip in a hasty draft, this slip contradicted both the draft itself and the already established lore, which will be explained further more below.

"After the War of the Elves and Sauron ended, she passed again through Moria with Celebrían and came to Imladris, seeking Celeborn.[13] There she found him, and there they dwelt together for a long time.[13]" - TG

Never happened in the revised version. Celeborn had not retreated to Rivendell after the Fall of Eregion; as quoted above he had retreated to Lorien.

"But at some later time, Galadriel and Celeborn departed from Imladris and went to the little-inhabited lands between the mouth of the Gwathló and Ethir Anduin. There they dwelt in Belfalas, at the place that was afterwards called Dol Amroth" - TG

Galadriel never lived in Dol Amroth in "canon"

First let's see why she decided to live in Dol Amroth in the earlier version:

She used her Ring in the Second Age and "its power upon her was great also and unforeseen, for it increased her latent desire for the Sea and return into the West, so her joy in Middle-earth was diminished"

"the sea longing grew so strong in her that she ..." committed Lorinand to Amroth and determined " to leave Lorinand and to dwell near the sea." she "dwelt in Belfalas .... there Amroth their son at times visited them ... it was not until far on in the Third Age, when Amroth was lost and Lorinand was in peril, that Galadriel returned there"

In the note against these passages Christopher explains: "Galadriel cannot have made use of the powers of Nenya until a much later time, after the loss of the Ruling Ring; but it must be admitted that the text does not at at all suggest this (although she is said just above to have advised Celebrimbor that the Elven Rings should never be used)"

If you have read the Silmarllion and LOTR and its Appendix you see the same idea that Christopher is talking about is explained: Elves would have been enslaved if they had used their Rings as long as Sauron possessed the One. How come Galadriel breaks reality by heavily using Nenya in SA? Because... as Chris explained this version was written "very hastily".

If Galadriel had never used Nenya in SA, which she did not, because she could not, then she never grew to become so sick and long for the Sea so badly to go and live near the Sea for 5000 years.

There is a lot of discarded writings in the version which TG is talking about. For example, in later writings Galadriel actually returned to Lorien three times before she became its ruler in the Third Age (which we will see in a quote some further below).

Anyway, as Chris says: "it is not much clear in the late accounts where Galadriel and Celeborn passed the long years of the Second Age after the defeat of Sauron in Eriador; there are at any rate no further mentions of their agelong sojourn in Belfalas" and that for a very good reason, which me and Chris explained.

"After long journeys in Rhovanion, from Gondor and the borders of Mordor to Thranduil in the north, Celeborn and Galadriel passed over the mountains to Imladris, and there dwelt for many years.[17] It was there, in T.A. 109,[18] that their daughter Celebrían wedded Elrond Half-elven of Rivendell.

When King Amroth, son of Amdír, perished in T.A. 1981, Celeborn and Galadriel took up the rule of Lindórinand jointly, and were called the Lord and Lady of Galadhrim. Galadriel planted the mallorn seeds brought with her from Lindon," - TG

Again confusing the timeline beyond comprehension. The actual whereabouts of Galadriel in TA in the text:

"during the Third Age Galadriel became filled with foreboding, and with Celeborn she journeyed to Lórien and stayed there long with Amroth, being especially concerned to learn all news and rumours of the growing shadow in Mirkwood and the dark stronghold in Dol Guldur." - Unfinished Tales

According to the Tale of the Years the Shadow appeared in Mirkwood in around 1050 Third Age or so. There's no statement where it would explicitly indicate where was Galadriel before returning to Lorien in around 1050 TA. But the implication is that as the mother of Celebrian she was obliged, according to Laws and Customs of the Eldar, to attend to her daughter's wedding. Therefore it can be presumed Galadriel lived in Rivendell in early TA before returning to Lorien in 1050 TA.

Her journeys of gathering information happened some time AFTER 1050 TA. The date of her returning to Rivendell some time before 1981 is not specified exactly. But it's evident that it was very long years of stay in Rivendell which in turn tells us she was in Rivendell during the War with Angmar.

"To Lórien Celeborn and Galadriel returned twice before the Last Alliance and the end of the Second Age; and in the Third Age, when the shadow of Sauron's recovery arose [in Dol Guldur], they dwelt there again for a long time. In her wisdom Galadriel saw that Lórien would be a stronghold and point of power to prevent the Shadow from crossing the Anduin in the war that must inevitably come before it was again defeated (if that were possible); but that it needed a rule of greater strength and wisdom than the Silvan folk possessed. Nevertheless, it was not until the disaster in Moria, when by means is beyond the foresight of Galadriel Sauron's power actually crossed the Anduin and Lórien was in great peril, its king lost, its people fleeing and likely to leave it deserted to likely occupied by Orcs, that Galadriel and Celeborn [returned from Rivendell and] took up their permanent abode in Lórien, and its government. But they took no title of King or Queen," - UT

In FotR it is plain clear Lorien had already have mallorn trees before 1981 TA, as is said during the time of Amroth there were golden trees in Lorien and actually Cerin Amroth was built upon em. And it is said it was built 'in happier days'.

In Unfinished Tales there's two conflicting accounts about Cerin Amroth, in one of them it was built as a watchtower to look upon Dol Guldur. However in a writing from 1969 it was built because of Amroth's love for Nimrodel, which I think pretty much implies it was before the foundation of Dol Guldur. "Amroth was King of Lórien, after his father Amdír was slain in the Battle of Dagorlad [in the year 3434 of the Second Age]. His land had peace for many years after the defeat of Sauron. Though Sindarin in descent he lived after the manner of the Silvan Elves and housed in the tall trees of a great green mound, ever after called Cerin Amroth. This he did because of his love for Nimrodel."

In any case, Galadriel had already introduced Golden Trees into Lorien way before 1981 TA. But when she and Celeborn became rulers of Lorien she finally 'finished' her 'project' by developing it far more; in her establishing of Caras Galadhon the City of the Fortress of Trees she poured a lot of her power and energy.

"In T.A. 2463, the White Council was formed. Galadriel, being one of the Wise and the greatest living threat to Sauron, was one of the members." - TG

This is again downplaying Galadriel. Since Galadriel herself formed the White Council as can be seen in her words in the Mirror of Galadriel chapter. Nowhere it is explicitly stated Galadriel was the greatest living threat to Sauron in Third Age, Sauron thought of Galadriel as his chief enemy in the Second Age, but after coming of Gandalf to Middle-earth his chief enemy may have been now Gandalf, at least Gandalf himself believed this as can be seen in his words in RotK book.

Galadriel vs Sauron in the Ride of Eorl is missing from this page.

In RGEO "She couldn't return to Valinor because a ban was set against her ... However, there are two late essays written by Tolkien after The Road Goes Ever On and published in Unfinished Tales that contradict this" - TG

Let's see what is actually said in RGEO: "After the overthrow of Morgoth at the end of the First Age a ban was set upon her return, and she had replied proudly that she had no wish to do so."

This can be indeed read as 'she was outright banned and was given no chance of forgiveness', but it can be also read as that the last sentence 'and she had proudly replied' had happened before the ban was set. As in, her rejection of the Valar was THE reason that the ban was set. And this is how it MUST be read. It makes no sense to interpret that Galadriel was given no chance of forgiveness, since people who were far far more sinful than Galadriel, such as Sauron and Maglor and Maedhros, were offered to come to Valinor and ask for the pardon of the Valar. And there's just too many writings that agrees that Tolkien himself preferred us to read it like that. For instance this from Parma: “Galadriel is thinking of her present state as a 'rebel' who refused the pardon and recall of the Exiles to Valinor." Or this from the Letters: "in her youth a leader in the rebellion against the Valar (the angelic
guardians). At the end of the First Age she proudly refused forgiveness or permission to return." Or the Shibboleth quote which I have quoted before.

So many other awesome stuff is missing in Galadriel page in TG. And there's just unending list of problems with Tolkiengateway.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

While waiting for Elthir to weigh in, I'll just mention that Gateway is essentially a wiki, and is open to editing.

 

[Halasían]

Wow! Somebody has a lot of time on their hands.

While waiting for Elthir to weigh in, I'll just mention that Gateway is essentially a wiki, and is open to editing.

Which makes one wonder why the MoonMan doesn't edit it to their liking.

 

[Matthew Bailey]

I long ago abandoned trying to edit the various wiki articles on Tolkien.

The contents are effectively centered upon the movies and a litany of Video-Games, where Video-Game Logic is central to the concepts and terminology, and anything else tends to be mercilessly eradicated.

Admittedly, as Tolkien’s works enter into the Public Sphere of Popular-Culture (or Pop-Culture) the tendency will be toward simplistic, ephemeral understanding that demands an kind of specificity that Tolkien (and most Scientists or Theologians) strenuously avoided or even outright detested.

The issue of things like Tom Bombadil is one that is of this sort, where the never-ending speculation that he is an Ainur, or “God,” despite Tolkien categorically refuting both, and giving us an answer to both who and what Tom Bombadil is that Tom Shippey expands upon in The Road to Middle-earth, (And which is present in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, even if that answer isn’t spelled-out in simplistic language. Tolkien didn’t like such things, along with Allegory, for the exact same reasons).

It is likely that we will have to wait until certain reactionary ideologies are no longer so overwhelming in society before we can deal with the ambiguities and confusions surrounding the works of authors like Tolkien. These things are simply too overwhelming to many people who can only think in terms of outrage or grievance, defending against a perceived yet non-existent attack they fear is everywhere.

I tried to edit some of the entries for some of the characters in Tolkien’s novels, but people were really upset by my use of Tertiary Sources such as Aquinas’ Summa Theologica, Boethius’ Consolidation of Philosophy or Augustine’s Civitas Dei/City of God.

I am not Catholic. I do not share Tolkien’s faith. But it is vital that I understand it, to understand Tolkien, to understand Eä, which contains Arda, which contains Middle-earth, where the Mythology he created as a proxy for the Lost Mythology of Engelondë mentioned by the Venerable Bede in his Ecclesiatical History of the Anglo-Saxons takes place. Tolkien’s work in scrubbing these Myths of any explicit mention of this Religion (save for the Athrabeth, rejected by Tolkien for exactly that reason) does not mean that the framework and foundations on which the Myths and Stories (Narrative) are built isn’t solely constructed from that Theology, Metaphysics, and Philosophy.

Internal to Eä, Arda, and thus Middle-earth, that theology/metaphysics/philosophy is what gives Middle-earth the “Realness” that people are drawn to, as they are to all Myths. Jung, and especially his student Joseph Campbell, point-out that humans are kind of “built” to be drawn to the Archetypes we innately recognize within these works.

But Social Media, and Wikis especially, are something that tends to take a long, long time to see refined to a point of being useful and accurate.

MB

 

[Child of Varda]

@TheManInTheMoon, well said. I honestly think you could write your own article for Galadriel yourself. You can try taking it up with the people over at Tolkien Gateway if you want.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

@TheManInTheMoon, well said. I honestly think you could write your own article for Galadriel yourself. You can try taking it up with the people over there if you want.

I agree; it's a good idea.

 

[Tyelkormo the Fair]

I checked Galadriel's page and it was a literal disaster of misinformation. They are presenting those 'lore' as canon even though they are just all discarded and passing ideas of Tolkien. Not only that, they even sometimes make up their own stuff which have no basis in Tolkien. Not to even mention they have not mentioned large pivotal parts of Galadriel history.

Let's see what they have presented in Galadriel page:

In Tolkiengateway Galadriel's birthplace in Tirion, but this is nowhere explicitly stated by Tolkien, in Annals of Aman it's only stated she was born in Eldamar, this makes it possible that her birth place was either in Tirion or Alqualondë. Which one? It is open and depends on the reader's take.

"Though the source of her hair colour was from her father and her foremother Indis, it was said among the Eldar that her hair had captured the light of the Two Trees in Valinor, which resulted a unique and dazzling colour of gold and silver." - Tolkiengateway (TG)

The above passage in TG is sourced to The Peoples of Middle-earth, "XI. The Shibboleth of Fëanor". But in Shibboleth essay it's actually stated her hair "**was golden like the hair of her father and her foremother Indis, but richer and more radiant, for its gold was touched by some memory of the star-like silver of her mother**". TG however phrases it like Eldar claim that her hair shone both silver and gold is false and her hair was actually only golden. This is confusing early ideas of Tolkien with their actual source (Shibboleth of Feanor written in 1968) and other later writings of Tolkien such as a letter which he wrote in 1973. "...she had long
hair which glistened like gold but was also shot with silver. She was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats." - a letter to Mrs Catharine Findlay 6 March 1973

"During the Darkening of Valinor, she was very independent and visionary. She swore no oaths, but the words of Fëanor concerning Middle-earth kindled a desire in her heart, as she was eager to see those wide unguarded lands and rule a realm of her own." - TG

This isn't strictly inaccurate, but TG is missing to mention she already had such desire since the Strife of the Noldor, and that Feanor's speech kindled in her heart because she was already long corrupt, as can be seen in the Shibboleth chapter. Also they are missing here to mention she was also motivated because of her kinship with Sindar (who needed aid against Morgoth).

The Years of the Trees section of Galadriel page in TG is wholly missing to mention she was a chief leader during the entire Rebellion and Flight of the Noldor and she was uncontrollably moved by her excessive pride and rejected every warning and message of the Valar. This is the chief characterization of Galadriel especially in later versions. Her character arc is greatly about overcoming her pride. You know, mentioning those stuff is necessary to understand why she did what she did. (There's a glimpse into her characterization in Characterization section but I think it's just not enough and more details and elaboration was necessary)

Also her surviving the Battle of the Lammoth is completely missing in Tolkiengateway.

"Galadriel did not go with him and remained in Doriath with her husband, though she occasionally visited her brother in Nargothrond." - TG

Celeborn wasn't her husband in the versions where he was a Prince of Doriath. He was her boyfriend and later fiance. They only married in the Second Age long after Doriath was destroyed. Look up Galadriel and Celeborn in the Nature of Middle-earth book to see more details about this.

In the published Silmarillion Christopher Tolkien used a version of Galadriel where she only once visited Nargothrond. It's never again stated she visited there again, as opposed to what Tolkiengateway claims. And apparently JRR Tolkien himself had rejected the idea that she ever visited Nargothrond, as can be seen in both Later Quenta Silmarillion 1 and 2: "Galadriel his sister went never to Nargothrond," and "Galadriel his sister dwelt neverin Nargothrond, but remained in Doriath and received the love of Melian,"

"Presumably, she returned to Doriath to live with her husband." - TG

Again, Galadriel never went to live in Nargothrond in Later Quenta Silmarillion. And in the version where she had done that, it's pointed out she did return, since it's said her dwelling in Nargothrond was only for a while, and see also the Grey Annals Year 420 where Melian foretells about coming of Beren to Galadriel (this part is also published in Silmarillion).

Also the fact that they have missed to mention Galadriel was a loremaster and athelete and "a pupil of Aulë and Yavanna in Valinor" and "a handmaid of Melian the Immortal in the realm of Doriath" and "of her learned great wisdom and lore" is significant. By far Galadriel in TG is just bland, we don't even know her talents if we only read TG.

"Galadriel and Celeborn did not have any significant role in the general course of events in the War of the Jewels. It is said that even before the Fall of Nargothrond (F.A. 495), she passed over the mountains to [5] Eriador, far from the turmoil of the last years of the First Age." - TG

This passage in TG is sourced to The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, "The Mirror of Galadriel". But the problem is, in FotR Celeborn wasn't even ever present in Beleriand. Celeborn was not a Prince of Doriath according to FotR, he had never even been into Doriath, and Galadriel had never met him there. I'd let Tolkien's son himself explain this radically different versions:

"There is no part of the history of Middle-earth more full of problems than the story of Galadriel and Celeborn, and it must be admitted that there are severe inconsistencies "embedded in the traditions"; or, to look at the matter from another point of view, that the role and importance of Galadriel only emerged slowly, and that her story underwent continual refashionings.

Thus, at the outset, it is certain that the earlier conception was that Galadriel went east over the mountains from Beleriand alone, before the end of the First Age, and met Celeborn in his own land of Lórien; this is explicitly stated in unpublished writing, and the same idea underlies Galadriel's words to Frodo in The Fellowship of the Ring II 7, where she says of Celeborn that "He has dwelt in the West since the days of dawn, and I have dwelt with him years uncounted; for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains, and together through ages of the world we have fought the long defeat." In all probability Celeborn was in this conception a Nandorin Elf (that is, one of the Teleri who refused to cross the Misty Mountains on the Great Journey from Cuiviénen).

On the other hand, in Appendix B to The Lord of the Rings appears a later version of the story; for it is stated there that at the beginning of the Second Age "In Lindon south of the Lune dwelt for a time Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol; his wife was Galadriel, greatest of Elven women." And in the notes to The Road Goes Ever On (1968, p. 60) it is said that Galadriel "passed over the Mountains of Eredluin with her husband Celeborn (one of the Sindar) and went to Eregion." "

So in the versions where Celeborn is a Prince of the Sindar of Doriath Galadriel was actually in Beleriand until the end of it, meaning she had gone through the Ruin of Doriath and the rescue of Elwing with the Silmaril, defending Elwing in the Third Kinslaying, the War of Wrath and the final overthrown of Morgoth in this war. It can be said Tolkien contradicted himself, but not necessarily, I think it's possible to reconcile Galadriel's statement in FotR with Appendix and RGEO (which were published by Tolkien himself) and other writings of Tolkien (which were published by his scholars). Firstly, Galadriel doesn't specify which mountains she crossed, therefore the mountains can refer to any mountains in Aman and North West of Middle-earth, and secondly, Galadriel is oversimplifying the timeline by saying 'ere the fall of Nargothrond', this event of the Fall of Nargothrond is a definite point that even the slightly educated people (such as Pippin) in the lore of the Elder Days can understand that it's a long long time ago. In other word, ere the Fall of Nargothrond is a term used in-universe by some people to refer to a long long time ago especially when talking to people who are not masters of lore of the First Age.

"After the War of Wrath and the overthrow of Morgoth, she chose to remain with Celeborn, who would not leave Middle-earth, but also because she was one of those eager to explore Middle-earth from the beginning.[13] " - TG

I checked their source and saw it's again from an early version. One of Tolkien scholars dated Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn draft to around late 1950s, and although Tolkien's son himself didn't date this writing he agreed that it's from a early years and too many things in this draft were discarded. Although the passage from TG is not strictly inaccurate, but it's missing to mention her chief and dominant reason of rejecting the pardon of the Valar in later versions is always because of her pride. This is too many times stated in later writings, for instance in Shibboleth it's stated: "**Pride still moved her when, at the end of the Elder Days after the final overthrow of Morgoth, she refused the pardon of the Valar for all who had fought against him, and remained in Middle-earth**."

"Celeborn ruled over the fiefdom of Harlindon .. Eventually, the couple crossed into Eriador with many Noldor in their following. Together with Sindar and Green-elves, they dwelt in the country about Lake Nenuial" - TG

TG is literally contradicting themselves, again. Celeborn ruling Harlindon is from the version where he was a Sinda who had gone through the War of the Jewels until the end of it, with his fiancee Galadriel, and after Beleriand sank into the Sea they setlled in Lindon/Harlindon. TG however is confusing and merging two wholly different versions together.

TG says by the year 300 SA Galadriel and Celeborn lived at Lake Nenuial. This is just from a draft and abandoned notes dated to later years of 1950s. This has no basis in what Tolkien himself published.

In LotR Appendix (revised edition) he published: In Second Age " In Lindon south of the Lune dwelt for a time Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol; his wife was Galadriel.... Later some of the Noldor went to Eregion, upon the west of the Misty Mountains .... 750 Eregion founded by the Noldor." And in the subsequent year Tolkien published in the Notes to Road Goes Ever On: "She passed over the Mountains of Ered Luin with her husband Celeborn (one of the Sindar) and went to Eregion."

Meaning, Galadriel and Celeborn were there ruling Harlindon until 750 SA when they left and went to Eregion.

"They departed [from the Lake] for Eregion and arrived there by S.A. 750.[13][14] It was ruled by Celebrimbor, grandson of Fëanor and distant cousin of Galadriel." - TG

This kinda makes it look like they arrived to Eregion when it was already established, and TG is missing to mention Galadriel and Celeborn had a chief part in establishing Eregion, alongside their bestfriend Celebrimbor. Also TG is missing to point out almost the entire narrative of Galadriel in Eregion. There's almost no mention of her narrative with Dwarves, and her part against Sauron In Disguise.

"It was only sometime between S.A. 1350 and 1400 did she cross the Hithaeglir through Khazad-dûm and relocated to there with Celebrían becoming great among the Wood-elves.[13]" - TG

Again, discarded idea from Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn (1959). In 1960s writings, published in Unfinished Tales, Parma Eldalamberon 17, and Nature of Middle-earth, it is stated too many times: “Galadriel and Celeborn, and their followers, who after the destruction of Eregion [in the year 1697] passed through Moria” “Galadriel and Celeborn only retreated thither [to Lorien] after the downfall of Eregion." “... "domination" of Galadriel and Celeborn ..." In Lorien. "...after the Fall of Eregion... They had passed through Moria with considerable following of Noldorin Exiles and dwelt for many years in Lorien” and as Christopher elaborates in a writing from much the same time it is implied "after Eregion's fall Celeborn led this migration into Lorien while Galadriel joined Gil-Galad in Lindon."

Galadriel was a total badass in the entire narrative of Forging of the Rings and the War of the Elves and Sauron, even in the earlier version where she wasn't personally in the battlefield, yet TG has selected to not mention any of it.

"By the power of Nenya, the realm of Lórinand was strengthened and made beautiful." - TG

Why is this passage in Second Age timeline? Christopher Tolkien points out Galadriel using Nenya in Second Age was a slip in a hasty draft, this slip contradicted both the draft itself and the already established lore, which will be explained further more below.

"After the War of the Elves and Sauron ended, she passed again through Moria with Celebrían and came to Imladris, seeking Celeborn.[13] There she found him, and there they dwelt together for a long time.[13]" - TG

Never happened in the revised version. Celeborn had not retreated to Rivendell after the Fall of Eregion; as quoted above he had retreated to Lorien.

"But at some later time, Galadriel and Celeborn departed from Imladris and went to the little-inhabited lands between the mouth of the Gwathló and Ethir Anduin. There they dwelt in Belfalas, at the place that was afterwards called Dol Amroth" - TG

Galadriel never lived in Dol Amroth in "canon"

First let's see why she decided to live in Dol Amroth in the earlier version:

She used her Ring in the Second Age and "its power upon her was great also and unforeseen, for it increased her latent desire for the Sea and return into the West, so her joy in Middle-earth was diminished"

"the sea longing grew so strong in her that she ..." committed Lorinand to Amroth and determined " to leave Lorinand and to dwell near the sea." she "dwelt in Belfalas .... there Amroth their son at times visited them ... it was not until far on in the Third Age, when Amroth was lost and Lorinand was in peril, that Galadriel returned there"

In the note against these passages Christopher explains: "Galadriel cannot have made use of the powers of Nenya until a much later time, after the loss of the Ruling Ring; but it must be admitted that the text does not at at all suggest this (although she is said just above to have advised Celebrimbor that the Elven Rings should never be used)"

If you have read the Silmarllion and LOTR and its Appendix you see the same idea that Christopher is talking about is explained: Elves would have been enslaved if they had used their Rings as long as Sauron possessed the One. How come Galadriel breaks reality by heavily using Nenya in SA? Because... as Chris explained this version was written "very hastily".

If Galadriel had never used Nenya in SA, which she did not, because she could not, then she never grew to become so sick and long for the Sea so badly to go and live near the Sea for 5000 years.

There is a lot of discarded writings in the version which TG is talking about. For example, in later writings Galadriel actually returned to Lorien three times before she became its ruler in the Third Age (which we will see in a quote some further below).

Anyway, as Chris says: "it is not much clear in the late accounts where Galadriel and Celeborn passed the long years of the Second Age after the defeat of Sauron in Eriador; there are at any rate no further mentions of their agelong sojourn in Belfalas" and that for a very good reason, which me and Chris explained.

"After long journeys in Rhovanion, from Gondor and the borders of Mordor to Thranduil in the north, Celeborn and Galadriel passed over the mountains to Imladris, and there dwelt for many years.[17] It was there, in T.A. 109,[18] that their daughter Celebrían wedded Elrond Half-elven of Rivendell.

When King Amroth, son of Amdír, perished in T.A. 1981, Celeborn and Galadriel took up the rule of Lindórinand jointly, and were called the Lord and Lady of Galadhrim. Galadriel planted the mallorn seeds brought with her from Lindon," - TG

Again confusing the timeline beyond comprehension. The actual whereabouts of Galadriel in TA in the text:

"during the Third Age Galadriel became filled with foreboding, and with Celeborn she journeyed to Lórien and stayed there long with Amroth, being especially concerned to learn all news and rumours of the growing shadow in Mirkwood and the dark stronghold in Dol Guldur." - Unfinished Tales

According to the Tale of the Years the Shadow appeared in Mirkwood in around 1050 Third Age or so. There's no statement where it would explicitly indicate where was Galadriel before returning to Lorien in around 1050 TA. But the implication is that as the mother of Celebrian she was obliged, according to Laws and Customs of the Eldar, to attend to her daughter's wedding. Therefore it can be presumed Galadriel lived in Rivendell in early TA before returning to Lorien in 1050 TA.

Her journeys of gathering information happened some time AFTER 1050 TA. The date of her returning to Rivendell some time before 1981 is not specified exactly. But it's evident that it was very long years of stay in Rivendell which in turn tells us she was in Rivendell during the War with Angmar.

"To Lórien Celeborn and Galadriel returned twice before the Last Alliance and the end of the Second Age; and in the Third Age, when the shadow of Sauron's recovery arose [in Dol Guldur], they dwelt there again for a long time. In her wisdom Galadriel saw that Lórien would be a stronghold and point of power to prevent the Shadow from crossing the Anduin in the war that must inevitably come before it was again defeated (if that were possible); but that it needed a rule of greater strength and wisdom than the Silvan folk possessed. Nevertheless, it was not until the disaster in Moria, when by means is beyond the foresight of Galadriel Sauron's power actually crossed the Anduin and Lórien was in great peril, its king lost, its people fleeing and likely to leave it deserted to likely occupied by Orcs, that Galadriel and Celeborn [returned from Rivendell and] took up their permanent abode in Lórien, and its government. But they took no title of King or Queen," - UT

In FotR it is plain clear Lorien had already have mallorn trees before 1981 TA, as is said during the time of Amroth there were golden trees in Lorien and actually Cerin Amroth was built upon em. And it is said it was built 'in happier days'.

In Unfinished Tales there's two conflicting accounts about Cerin Amroth, in one of them it was built as a watchtower to look upon Dol Guldur. However in a writing from 1969 it was built because of Amroth's love for Nimrodel, which I think pretty much implies it was before the foundation of Dol Guldur. "Amroth was King of Lórien, after his father Amdír was slain in the Battle of Dagorlad [in the year 3434 of the Second Age]. His land had peace for many years after the defeat of Sauron. Though Sindarin in descent he lived after the manner of the Silvan Elves and housed in the tall trees of a great green mound, ever after called Cerin Amroth. This he did because of his love for Nimrodel."

In any case, Galadriel had already introduced Golden Trees into Lorien way before 1981 TA. But when she and Celeborn became rulers of Lorien she finally 'finished' her 'project' by developing it far more; in her establishing of Caras Galadhon the City of the Fortress of Trees she poured a lot of her power and energy.

"In T.A. 2463, the White Council was formed. Galadriel, being one of the Wise and the greatest living threat to Sauron, was one of the members." - TG

This is again downplaying Galadriel. Since Galadriel herself formed the White Council as can be seen in her words in the Mirror of Galadriel chapter. Nowhere it is explicitly stated Galadriel was the greatest living threat to Sauron in Third Age, Sauron thought of Galadriel as his chief enemy in the Second Age, but after coming of Gandalf to Middle-earth his chief enemy may have been now Gandalf, at least Gandalf himself believed this as can be seen in his words in RotK book.

Galadriel vs Sauron in the Ride of Eorl is missing from this page.

In RGEO "She couldn't return to Valinor because a ban was set against her ... However, there are two late essays written by Tolkien after The Road Goes Ever On and published in Unfinished Tales that contradict this" - TG

Let's see what is actually said in RGEO: "After the overthrow of Morgoth at the end of the First Age a ban was set upon her return, and she had replied proudly that she had no wish to do so."

This can be indeed read as 'she was outright banned and was given no chance of forgiveness', but it can be also read as that the last sentence 'and she had proudly replied' had happened before the ban was set. As in, her rejection of the Valar was THE reason that the ban was set. And this is how it MUST be read. It makes no sense to interpret that Galadriel was given no chance of forgiveness, since people who were far far more sinful than Galadriel, such as Sauron and Maglor and Maedhros, were offered to come to Valinor and ask for the pardon of the Valar. And there's just too many writings that agrees that Tolkien himself preferred us to read it like that. For instance this from Parma: “Galadriel is thinking of her present state as a 'rebel' who refused the pardon and recall of the Exiles to Valinor." Or this from the Letters: "in her youth a leader in the rebellion against the Valar (the angelic
guardians). At the end of the First Age she proudly refused forgiveness or permission to return." Or the Shibboleth quote which I have quoted before.

So many other awesome stuff is missing in Galadriel page in TG. And there's just unending list of problems with Tolkiengateway.

It also says that Fingon's wife was a sindarin lady which I've never seen anywhere else

 

[Olorgando]

It also says that Fingon's wife was a sindarin lady which I've never seen anywhere else

Well, that would make it plausible that Fingon was Gil-galad's dad - except that JRRT seems to have settled on Fingon having remained unmarried (as did Finrod Felagund, founder of Nargothrond).

 

[david_wendelken]

I view the entire problem of "where did Galadriel reside, where did she travel, and when did she do so?" entirely differently.

Let's pretend we believe the premise that the LOTR et al is actual history and Tolkien is just a translator of surviving historical documents.

Why would he be so confused about this topic? He's clearly a capable translator so that's not the problem.

I decided long ago that the reason for the confusion was because Galadriel wanted that confusion to exist. She realized something that Napoleon expressed many ages of the world later - after a general or a leader acts for some years, their opponents can anticipate that leader's response to events, and thus make successful plans to defeat them. So, she hid where she was and made sure that her advice and actions were obscured.

Such hints we get are leaks in the veil of secrecy she kept about her movements and actions, or disinformation intentionally leaked to confuse and confound the opposition.

Training under Melian would further reinforce that choice of action since she would not want it known she had some ability to foretell the future and was active in the opposition to the Morgoth and Sauron.

Problem solved!

 

[Ent]

Let's pretend we believe the premise that the LOTR et al is actual history

Yes and this is something even Tolkien did not do, he clearly saying TH and LoTR were intentionally more 'historical' in nature while SIL and the earlier ages were intentionally much more 'mythological', filled with the common exaggerations, alternate interpretations, enhancements and outsized, overblown heroics present with every other verbal mythological tradition of every other type passed down through generations upon generations.

It's one reason we frequently have so much trouble 'synching up' information between SIL: and the rest...like a dragon so outsized it smashed the tips of 3 mountains, and similar mytholigical trappings.

Getting a grip on Tolkien's fare for the audience he's feeding is essential to 'keeping things in perspective'.

 

[david_wendelken]

Yes and this is something even Tolkien did not do, he clearly saying TH and LoTR were intentionally more 'historical' in nature while SIL and the earlier ages were intentionally much more 'mythological', filled with the common exaggerations, alternate interpretations, enhancements and outsized, overblown heroics present with every other verbal mythological tradition of every other type passed down through generations upon generations.

It's one reason we frequently have so much trouble 'synching up' information between SIL: and the rest...like a dragon so outsized it smashed the tips of 3 mountains, and similar mytholigical trappings.

Getting a grip on Tolkien's fare for the audience he's feeding is essential to 'keeping things in perspective'.

I agree with that!

I was riding a percheron (a breed of horse just a tad smaller than a clydesdale) angling down a slope when the saddle girth broke and the saddle started to roll over to the downhill side. I voided the horse off the back as hard as I could and landed prone on the ground.

I can assure you that the hooves of that percheron, as it skittered down the hill towards my head, were in fact large enough to smash the tips of 3 mountains.

An hour later, after the adrenaline left my system, I was surprised to discover the horse's hooves were much smaller.

I suspect a huge dragon would have an even more impressive effect.

 

[Radaghast]

It's no more or less trustworthy than any wiki site. If you sign up you can edit articles.

 

[Matthew Bailey]

Let's pretend we believe the premise that the LOTR et al is actual history and Tolkien is just a translator of surviving historical documents.

Why would he be so confused about this topic? He's clearly a capable translator so that's not the problem.

One Problem.

Tolkien explicitly says, as does his son, in HoM-e that these translations are the work of Hobbits, themselves Translating from the Elvish Sources, principally of Elrond/Imladris, with later material added from sources in Gondor, Mirkwood (Thranduil/Legolas) Lórien (Celeborn, as Galadriel had left by then).

And thus they contain nearly nothing from the Fëanorian side! Being ENTIRELY FOCUSED upon the Line of Eärendil!

I.e. Eärendil —〉[Elrond + Elros] —〉
. . .┌─〉 Elrond —〉Arwen
—〉│
. . .└─〉 Elros —〉Aragorn


AND…

The Hobbits in question tended to be focused upon things principally concerning Hobbits, and the people/events/things most closely associated with Hobbits!

Who tended to ignore the things we might focus upon to deal with those they found most appealing, most frightening, or most offensive to Hobbit sensibilities.


So while Tolkien is acting as a “Translator of Ancient Documents (or Document, even if the Red Book of the Westmarch is in Multiple Volumes, reflection how he published the existing works)” he is still translating from what is a very biased and incomplete source, itself relying upon multiple, often contradictory sources.

He is working with what is states outright to be an unreliable narrator.


To re-state your prior thesis:

Problem NOT solved!

And here is the Thing.

Tolkien was a Historian. He knew that History was like this, and he had hoped to eventually contrive a source or collection of sources that represented other “Found Historical Artifacts.” Pengolodh was to be one of those Sources, with Rúmil as a Valorian Source (albeit Noldor, recording the Valorian Events), and Celebrimbor was to have been a Fëanorian Chronicler (or at least one choice for that event).

In terms of Mythology, there is no distinction between “history” and “myth.”

Tolkien seems to have understood this, whether he ’knew’ it or not, and the comments he makes in Letters show many instances of this, where things the readers have tended to take as “Gospel” (Truth) Tolkien admits are “Not Gospel” and are only the impressions of the character, based upon insights they might have, accurate or not.

What Tolkien does is to create a Foundation upon which his work is built that is largely completed, and knowable, while some portions are open to different perceptions, interpretation, boundaries, or constraints; they are “debatable” within the bounds of the materials used for that Foundation (Catholic Theology as learned by Tolkien and Reflected by the Church, especially during his youth; the Old Saxon remnants, such as Beowulf, The Venerable Bede, Fenn and Hengest.; and the various Nordic, Germanic, British and Celtic, Spanish — Yes, Spanish — and other Northern and Western European Myths; and the various Histories that relate to Christianity v “The Infidels” where Middle-earth is a re-creation of that Struggle, but without any established Religious Dogmas driving the “Christian” side of the framework in the Foundation; and other Ancient Histories, to a greater and lesser degree). But while the work is largely completed, there is a small boundary and a few small internal components where the shape or form is “debated” or “questionable.” Those regions within the greater framework for the Foundation are much more constrained as to “What might be placed or claimed to be within them.” And those around the borders of the Foundation present a greater amount of choices from which that portion might be constructed.

This is repeated by Tolkien when discussing the construction of a new Tower or Castle from the ruins of the Old.

Some portions will remain standing in their entirety, with some portions around them clearly identified in the rubble, and thus can be re-constructed almost wholly complete as the original, with only a few very minor details in question.

While other portions might have a clearly delineated Foundations, and the surrounding parts of the old Tower/Castle present many options that fit atop the existing Foundations.

Where the remaining portions have either completed, intact Foundations, for which nothing in the remnants, ruins, and rubble of the old Tower/Castle clearly belongs, and the existing remnants/ruin/rubble are insufficient to cover all of these Foundations; or the Foundations are so damaged or wholly destroyed that they must be re-built.

Tolkien mentions this process in both Letters and in The History of Middle-earth, using this exact analogy. And to Tolkien, he had completed the Foundations (or at least he had a plan for the repair and reconstruction of those “missing” or “debatable” portions), yet he had not put in writing the complete details of these Foundations, so that we might know explicitly what they were to look like.

And he obviously had many blueprints for what he was building atop the Foundations.

So those constrained choices present the “Boundaries” for any portion of the Foundation, atop which to build the remaining portions.

This means that these Foundations limit what can be built atop them, even where the boundaries of the Foundations are debatable. Some things just aren’t in the Rubble, and could NEVER HAVE BEEN in that Rubble (and thus the prior Tower/Castle). What is more, some things are wholly impossible to build atop the Foundations, or even atop the debated Boundaries, even if we have an enormous range of possible choices that could otherwise be built atop them.

This has to do with the “History and Mythology” of Middle-earth. In this sense, there is no distinction between the “Earlier Myths” and The Later Events of the Two Main Novels, which some are referring to as “History.”

That is because we have many characters who are present at all of these events.

But the two novels represent the Portion of the new Tower that is completed atop the foundations that is wholly intact, and where next to it are foundations with either portions of the structure intact, or ruins/rubble that are clearly a portion of the Structure. And next to these are portions with clearly defined foundations, and the ruins/rubble producing many parts that can build an enormous variety of structures atop them, which we see Tolkien had built and torn-down again many times.

And beyond this we have portions like The Beowulf Fragments such as Finn and Hengest or The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, where we have small bits of observable structure, but no clear idea of where they go, or what they are supposed to do. Such as “Is this a lintel or a doorway, or is it a portion of a window?”, “Is this a portion of an Architrave, or a portion of a corbeled Archway?”

Joseph Campbell‘s work presented us with a method for identifying and testing the nature of such “pieces,” as well as showing how differences in Culture produce differences in perception of not just Mythology, but of the same history. This is the bit that Tolkien seems to have “‘Understood’ even if he did not ‘know’ it as a fact.”

And the works published as a Novel (The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, alone) show this through the eyes of Hobbits, and solely with the Descendants of Eärendil to Aragorn and Arwen. (The finished portion of the Tower/Castle re-built itself from the Ruins of another, and in a place that was largely “Intact”).

We haven’t any accurate, even if biased by the author (within Middle-earth, using Tolkien’s Literary Trope of Lost Works recovered and translated), works pertaining to Valinor, or the Fëanorean descendants and events (Much less those of the Silvan Avari and Moriquendi).

And we haven’t any real record of the Northmen of Rhovanion/Éothód/Rohirrim, the other populations of Eriador, nor of Gondor prior the events of the Novels, justly as the most relevant Human Cultures.


For Galadriel, we have a selection of Options for which there is no known “definitive conclusion,” yet we do know of what CANNOT BE as possible choices (the Boundaries of the Foundations).

MB

 

[david_wendelken]

For Galadriel, we have a selection of Options for which there is no known “definitive conclusion,” yet we do know of what CANNOT BE as possible choices (the Boundaries of the Foundations).

I agree with all your points and have argued them before. I also maintain they are not mutually exclusive with my thesis, that Galadriel chose to make it harder for others to (a) know where she was and (b) to know what she was doing. Toss all the reasons you give into the mix and you have a perfect explanation of why we are so confused about where Galadriel was and when she was there.