Would Poor Old Gollum have recovered if Frodo had done his job?

[TrackerOrc]

Indeed in some respects we see similarities between Saruman and Gollum.
Yet huge differences as well.

Saruman, never having touched the ring, but been corrupted by the very thought of it for years, and in the end, by Sauron directly through the Palantir, was given his "last chance" says Gandalf - his final opportunity - to 'remept and come down.' He chooses unwisely, though he 'seems to hesitate for a moment.'

Gollum was much more under the sway of the direct impact of Ring itself via possession - a much greater impact impact than Saruman's purely mental obsession brought. (Even with Sauron's remaining lesser power wielded upon him through the Palantir.)

Yet Gollum did not hesitate "for a moment." He had quite a little battle. Again speaking to the 'resilience of hobbits' of whom Gollum is kin.

But from elsewhere, we know Gollum was a bit corrupted before the ring came along for him... and the ring used that.
We also know from elsewhere the purpose for wearing the ring comes to bear, and the length of time as well.

Gollum used the ring for "power to kill" among the Orcs... and in thievery and such among his own kin before he was excommunicated.

Bilbo onlly used the ring to "deceive" (i.e., to hide so as not to be discommodated, etc.)
Frodo, pretty mcuh the same.
Sam the same as well.

There is a vast difference beteween the backgrounds of Gollum and the other hobbits - as well as the uses of the ring.
We do not, I thinik, give these differences the "space they deserve" in evaluating Gollum's ultimate potential for 'healing'. In essence, a bit corrupt before - more completely corrupt after.

It's also said, as we recall, "A ring of power enhances one's own internal strength." To what extent did the One Ring actally ENHANCE not only Gollum's innate corruptness, but the 3 hobbits' own natural goodness and ability to resist its ultimate working to corrupt them in the end?

Even Gandalf knew "he would use it out of pity for the people" at the beginning, but ultimately would end up corrupted. And he had the problem of knowing he wouild use it "for its power" - something none of the hobbits ever did.

An ocean of interplay, is the Ring - a many-faceted trinket with which we can toy.

Well I'm only reading TH and LoTR from now on, so I actually don't see Gollum as inherently corrupt from what evidence there is in the texts.

He was bushwacked by this horrid thing and then lived with it for centuries - something I don't think we always remember, and it's to his credit that he emerges from this terrible time as anything other than a complete monster.

His hobbit descendants have the ring for mometns, relatively speaking, and Frodo ends up completely in its thrall; obviously the newer generations of hobbitry have some backbones to grow...

 

[Idril Celebrindal]

I like to think that the Ring owed poor old Gollum about 80 or so years, which he would have lived if he hadn't been ambushed by it, so I would still say that he could have ended up at peace with himself at least. He doesn't need redemption or even innocence, just a nice cool lake to splash around in and a decent supply of fish. Never really asked for much more than that did he?

Actually, I think that at least in one point of time he did want a bit more than that. He wanted to be the ruler of Middle Earth. (although I guess the desire of fish still persisted).

Perhaps we grows very strong, stronger than Wraiths. Lord Sméagol? Gollum the Great? The Gollum! Eat fish every day, three times a day; fresh from the sea. Most Precious Gollum! Must have it. We wants it, we wants it, we wants it! '

 

[Idril Celebrindal]

Well I'm only reading TH and LoTR from now on, so I actually don't see Gollum as inherently corrupt from what evidence there is in the texts.

He was bushwacked by this horrid thing and then lived with it for centuries - something I don't think we always remember, and it's to his credit that he emerges from this terrible time as anything other than a complete monster.

His hobbit descendants have the ring for mometns, relatively speaking, and Frodo ends up completely in its thrall; obviously the newer generations of hobbitry have some backbones to grow...

Well, Bilbo picked up the Ring and it didn't seem to have the evil effect on him that it did on Gollum. Instead of killing Gollum when he had the chance Bilbo spared him with risk to his own life. Wheras Gollum strangled his best friend for personal gain. When Frodo was given the ring, he hardly used it at all and kept it in a chest for most of the time. Also, Gollum claimed the Ring as soon as he saw it. Frodo resisted for many years in the Shire, and on the way to Mordor (note that the Ring's power waxed as he neared Mordor). He only claimed it at the very end and resisted far longer than Gollum. Actually, Gollum did not even attempt to resist. So the Ring did not work so fast to evil in the hobbits as it did in Gollum. My conclusion is that Gollum was bad to begin with, or that he succumbed to his bad desires, and thus the Ring had a grater effect on the evil in him. Of course, that's just my opinion, and I respect yours.

 

[TrackerOrc]

Actually, I think that at least in one point of time he did want a bit more than that. He wanted to be the ruler of Middle Earth. (although I guess the desire of fish still persisted).

But even as Gollum the Great his needs were extremely modest and focused almost entirely on fish, though I note they now have to be fresh from the sea, so he may be getting a little carried away here...

 

[TrackerOrc]

Well, Bilbo picked up the Ring and it didn't seem to have the evil effect on him that it did on Gollum. Instead of killing Gollum when he had the chance Bilbo spared him with risk to his own life. Wheras Gollum strangled his best friend for personal gain. When Frodo was given the ring, he hardly used it at all and kept it in a chest for most of the time. Also, Gollum claimed the Ring as soon as he saw it. Frodo resisted for many years in the Shire, and on the way to Mordor (note that the Ring's power waxed as he neared Mordor). He only claimed it at the very end and resisted far longer than Gollum. Actually, Gollum did not even attempt to resist. So the Ring did not work so fast to evil in the hobbits as it did in Gollum. My conclusion is that Gollum was bad to begin with, or that he succumbed to his bad desires, and thus the Ring had a grater effect on the evil in him. Of course, that's just my opinion, and I respect yours.

I'm a huge Gollum fan, so can't agree with much of what you say, but as you point out, it's all a matter of respectful opinions. That's what makes this forum such an interesting place.

 

[Idril Celebrindal]

But even as Gollum the Great his needs were extremely modest and focused almost entirely on fish, though I note they now have to be fresh from the sea, so he may be getting a little carried away here...

Actually, I find it sad that Gollum has been so corrupted and twisted by the Ring that he can't imagine anything better for himself, that he doesn't even consider (possibly doesn't want?) mental healing. But, of course, this is a matter of opinion.

 

[TrackerOrc]

Actually, I find it sad that Gollum has been so corrupted and twisted by the Ring that he can't imagine anything better for himself, that he doesn't even consider (possibly doesn't want?) mental healing. But, of course, this is a matter of opinion.

I think it's quite healthy of the little guy not to want too much out of life. Quite the little M-E Marie Kondo thing going on.