How much do you hate 🧝Feanor!?!?!?!

[Beleg]

Im afraid it does, i cant see it any other way with Feanor, and i am by no means being unfair to him,

Biggest understatement of life!

No but she has her own will, the Silmarils do not.

You are not getting my point even though I have made it explictly clear. Need I repeat it again?

Lets see, Finwe, Feanors father, BIG connection there, the Trees, the Light of which ONLY remained in the Silmarils, another BIG connection.

Right Since Finwe was Feanor's father, the blame of his killing should be put on Feanor?

Since Feanor created the Silmaril's it was his fault that the trees were destroyed?

Doh!

clesrly by what you have stated he had such a powerful spririt before their creation that he was surely the most powerful being on Arda .

This idea is just laughble. Might As well recall that Manwe and Melkor would be fuming at hearing your idea.
I asked for evidance, as In written word...??

Its his word against practise, i bet if he handed over the Silmarils he would have attemped and succeded in making them again.

Congragulations to your oponent for winning the bet money.

this clearly states that Feanor must have put over half his spirit and soul into the making of the Silmarils to make it entirely impossible,

To make what entirely immpossible? Just where does It state that Feanor put over half his spirit and soul into making of Silmaril's?

 

[Celebthôl]

Not the biggest understatement, its true, the guy is an utter retard!

Yes repeat yourself please, as what you said makes no sence...

Never said he caused those things did i?! please show me where i said that Feanor caused them as opposed to being conected to them!

Well its just fact, if he spent less than half his spirit and soul in the making of the silmarils then he could do it again with what was left over, its not hard to see that...

 

[Curufinwe]

BAH! He is the greatest character, it is a pity he was not mentioned more!

 

[Confusticated]

Not the biggest understatement, its true, the guy is an utter retard!

Retard? There is no way.
No way!

Feanor did not view the Valar as most of his people did even, even those who had become less trusting.

Feanor was not denying the silmarls to gods that he loved and trusted.

He denied them to mighty beings that brought elves to Aman for secret reasons, and so that men could have the lands that were ment for the elves. Powerful people who had been trying to get their hands on them, and just waiting for the the silmarils. The leaders who were loved by many, who couldn't see the truth... that the leaders were sneeky, greedy and all around bad compared to what most idiots in Valmar and even Tirion thought they were. Here were the poeple with the greatest power and all authority, trusted by elves that they had fooled, and only the mighty, and brilliant Feanor can see the truth.

These were the masterpiece of Feanor, made with the light that was for everyone, and things that even the Valar apparantly could not make.

Why should he give them to these people?

Why a Retard?
Because he was so mighty, skilled, and brilliant, that it worked
against him when evil came to Aman?

That is what happend.
How about the Valar for retards, hows that for you?

 

[Celebthôl]

Ahhhhh, its not just that he didnt relinquish the Silmarils, he did all that other stuff aswell, and didnt care the slightest lil bit about doing it...maybe retard was the wrong word...i meant sick!

 

[YayGollum]

I was asking what your definition of greatness is. Anyways, how was I twisting your words? Weren't you saying that you didn't like Feanor just because he was connected to certain evil things that happened? sorry if I read something the wrong way. Also, Yay for the Confusticated lady! Makes all kinds of sense to me! Okay, it looks like we are now talking about how Feanor might have been evil for not letting those Valar types to take his silmarils. Even though their light wasn't especially necessary. Take a look at the sun and the moon.

 

[Celebthôl]

Im not saying he was connected to certain things that happened, he was connected to EVERYTHING bad that happened!
The Sun and Moon were only made afterwards,so there was in effect no light at all in Valinor at the time when the Simarils were needed, except starlight.
But the light of the Trees made Valinor like heavan i guess, so once there were no Trees, then the joy of Valinor would have been decresed, therefore the final resting place of Elves was of less happyness that what should have been.

 

[Confusticated]

He was one of Morgoth's greatest tools is why.

Morgoth was connected to all the evil happenings.


Oh this is such a short post, maybe it is useless? Maybe it should be deleted or I should get warning points! Oh wait, maybe go all out and ban me over it!

 

[Celebthôl]

Okay wot has Nóm cracked? calm down whats up with you?

 

[Gil-Galad]

hm.......hate Feanor?I can't help him because I'm a realist.It is too strong to say you hate him.Yes he dose great mistakes but the greatest always do great mistakes.I love him.I love his strong character,will,his stubborness,his anger,his talant,his abilities to be a leader.
there is a famous Bulgarian poet symbolist-P.K.Yavorov who says:
"I'm not living,I'm burning!" *
These words just for Feanor



*Translated from Bulgarian.

 

[YayGollum]

Got it. This Celebthol person doesn't feel like answering questions. Even after I spell things out. oh well. Nevermind. Valinor still turned out to be paradise without those treeses. sorry about that.

 

[Beleg]

Okay wot has Nóm cracked? calm down whats up with you?

What's up is that you're balatantly accusing Feanor of things he didn't do or commit and refusing to believe facts when they are dancing infront of your very eyes.

 

[Celebthôl]

Originally posted by Beleg_strongbow
What's up is that you're balatantly accusing Feanor of things he didn't do or commit and refusing to believe facts when they are dancing infront of your very eyes.

1stly: He was the first person to threaten another in Aman with a weapon, it was even his brother for pete sakes.

2ndly: He refused to had over the Silmairills for the greater good for the majority, and he would so have gotten over it, they were makeable again, he did it once he could do it again, its not as though he put the greater part of his power into them, like Yavanna did with the trees.

3rdly: He forsoke the Teleri and killed them and if the ships were to the Teleri as the Silmarills were to Feanor then he is even worse than anything.

4thly: He pooed all over the bond he made with his brother Fingolfin infront of Manwe when they both swore fealty to each other, by leaving him in Aman to face shame or face the Halecaraxe.

5thly: He laughed in the faces (pretty much) of the curse of Mandos and Manwe himself.

6thly: He swore stupid oaths in the name of Ilúvatar that were obviously folly and he allowed his sons to make the same mistake as himself.

7thly: He burned the boats of the Teleri, the least he could have done was to hand them over to Círdan or somthing like that.

8thly: The oath he took eventually got carried to his sons who after it was all ammended stole the jewels and killed the guards and died and took the Silmarills with them to the deeps of the world.

Nuff said!

YAY, ill answer your quesions how, im sorry i keep getting side tracked

Or are we just talking about greatness of character? He was the greatest son a father could ever have. Or are we just talking about greatness of actions?

I guess you mean these questions...

No its not the greatness of characters, he was only great in the BAD things he did.
Yes he probibly was the greatest son in the universe, but to one guy, not to the thousands of others he screwed over!

 

[Confusticated]

Originally posted by Celebthôl
1stly: He was the first person to threaten another in Aman with a weapon, it was even his brother for pete sakes.

Yes, Feanor was paranoid, arrogant, and jealous. Did he not have good reason to be so arrogant? He could not help that he was paranoid and jealous. Who can?

2ndly: He refused to had over the Silmairills for the greater good for the majority,

He did not trust the Valar. He did not know their motives. Would you hand something dear over to powerful people that you did not trust, thought were greedy, and had secret motives that were against you and your people?
In Feanor's mind this was the way of it.

and he would so have gotten over it, they were makeable again, he did it once he could do it again, its not as though he put the greater part of his power into them, like Yavanna did with the trees.

He could not make them again though. They were works of ART not science. He put no less of himself into it than did Yavanna, or the Teleri their ships... of which it is said by them can never be made again.
Also, it is not even known how, or of what substance the jewels were made. For all we know, it was made in such a way or of something that no longer existed.

3rdly: He forsoke the Teleri and killed them and if the ships were to the Teleri as the Silmarills were to Feanor then he is even worse than anything.

Feanor's father, who he loved more than anyone else in the world, was cruely murdered in the land that was supposed to be safe. Also, to salt the wound, the murderer took the masterpiece of Feanor, the greatest work of skill that ever was among the elves. Who can blame him for wanting revenge right away? But then to make matters worse, the Valar who should have protected the elves from one of their kind, had failed to, and were weeping about the loss of the treees instead of keeping after Morgoth, until he was destroyed.
So Feanor went after Morgoth himself, along with all who he could gather to follow. He was driven by a need to avenge his father's death and regain his jewels. In this madness he tried to take the ships against the will of the Teleri, and resorted to fighting when they tried to stop it. He did not let anyone or anything stand in his way.

4thly: He pooed all over the bond he made with his brother Fingolfin infront of Manwe when they both swore fealty to each other, by leaving him in Aman to face shame or face the Halecaraxe.

He did this because they came to fear treachery. Though it was probably needless fear, who can blame a person for cutting himself off from the danger that he sees?

5thly: He laughed in the faces (pretty much) of the curse of Mandos and Manwe himself.

Again, he did not trust them. But even more so, they were sitting idle while they shuold have been out after Morgoth. Why should Feanor be a good little Noldo and listen to all that the failures, the Valar, advised? If they were go great for giving advice, and knew better than Feanor, was did they get fooled and jerked over my Melkor, and take a greivous attack in their own realm? Clearly they were powerful, but foolish or/and cowards.

6thly: He swore stupid oaths in the name of Ilúvatar that were obviously folly and he allowed his sons to make the same mistake as himself.

Obvious folly to us, because we know better. But this folly was not obvious to Feanor and his sons.

7thly: He burned the boats of the Teleri, the least he could have done was to hand them over to Círdan or somthing like that.

But Feanor was on a mission to go after Morgoth, not take a trip down south looking for Cirdan (assuming he know of him) so he could deliver the ships, experience Beleriand a bit... do a little sight seeing and whatnot, and then get back up to kill Morgoth eventually.

8thly: The oath he took eventually got carried to his sons who after it was all ammended stole the jewels and killed the guards and died and took the Silmarills with them to the deeps of the world.

But do you blame Feanor for his sons taking the oath? And if so, why not blame Morgoth for what happend to Feanor?

 

[Celebthôl]

HOW!?!?

Who can even try to condone any of those actions in a way that they appear not bad, they were all wrong, and shouldnt have happened, Grrr!!!

 

[Confusticated]

Yes, they were wrong, and certainly bad.

I try to show why I do not hate Feanor though.

No matter what bad thing a person does, he has his reasons. I think that Feanor's reasons are made clear enough to us, and I think it is sad that the great Feanor was so hurt by Morgoth.

The guy was very selfish and cold, and I do not particularly like him as a person, but I do admire things about it.

 

[Celebthôl]

OK, well i admire that he made the Silmarils, but thats it. He was a bad person, he never did a good thing for any other in his entire life!

 

[Beleg]

And what about Feanorian Alphabets?

 

[Celebthôl]

He made them for his own satisfaction.

He has never done a deed for somone else that only made his feel happy about doing it...

 

[Beleg]

Celebthol, for petes sake, can you prove to me that Silmaril's were remakeble?


Manwe cursed him? Phew...

His sons swore oath with their own will. They jumped in the mess themselves.

Hand the boats over to Cirdan???
Better think about it again.


No oath "got carried to his sons". They swore oaths themselves in their own personal positions.

No its not the greatness of characters, he was only great in the BAD things he did.

Sure being a great fighter is such a BAAADDD thing.
Being such a great loremaster is such a BAAADDD thing.
Being such a great Jewelsmith is such a BAAADDD thing.

not to the thousands of others he screwed over!

Better be careful with the usage of word "screwed"

he never did a good thing for any other in his entire life!

Pshaw! You are talking as If you were their to witness his whole life with your own eyes! Sure inventing alphabets for the Elves to converse and write in such a selfish deed.
Creating things that enhanced the beauty of Tirion is such a selfish thing.

Oh well, I have learned one thing from this thread,

Whatever we do, you won't move one inch from your self-proclaimed absolutely hatred of Feanor...

Better leave it then..