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How were Council-men produced?

Hisoka Morrow

Eastern Anduin Battlefield Commander
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As the title, yeah. As JRRT's politics has been discussed for more than decades through the forum, yet one thing seemd to be neglected-was there any direct source or implication mentioned by JRRT how these possibly representive were produced, everything productive are welcomed to post, no matter they're Gondor's Numenoreans, and so forth,thanks^^
 
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As the title, yeah. As JRRT's politics has been discussed for more than decades through the forum, yet one thing seemd to be neglected-was there any direct source or implication mentioned by JRRT how these possibly representive were produced, everything productive are welcomed to post, no matter they're Gondor's Numenoreans, and so forth,thanks^^
Which representatives? The one at the Council of Elrond? They were there to deliver news and were all there at the same time by "chance".
 
Oooppsss, me bad XD.
OK, to speak complexly, I mean those councils in charge of nationally domestic ministries, such as the Concil of Numenor, mostly playing the role as parliament possibly.
Ah. I'd imagine it wasn't terribly different than any other medieval society. Councils by appointment or via noblemen.
 
Ah. I'd imagine it wasn't terribly different than any other medieval society. Councils by appointment or via noblemen.
Hmmm....yes, but there're still elected officials composing parliament, such as Venice. And don't forget the Vikings, I forget their detailed way of democratic election, but I'm pretty sure bunches of their parliament officials were elected. Bunches of league such as Hanseatic League, went without sayings, was a democratic republic.
 
Hmmm....yes, but there're still elected officials composing parliament, such as Venice. And don't forget the Vikings, I forget their detailed way of democratic election, but I'm pretty sure bunches of their parliament officials were elected. Bunches of league such as Hanseatic League, went without sayings, was a democratic republic.
Starting with the elections in Athens over 2,400 years ago, and continuing well into the late 19th century, those eligible to vote and be elected were a small minority of the population. As to the combination "democratic republic", whenever it was used - like the former East Germany "GDR" (or "DDR" in the original) or the "DR" Congo - it was a safe bet that the government form was neither. Another favorite of totalitarian / authoritarian regimes is "People's Republic" ...
 
Starting with the elections in Athens over 2,400 years ago, and continuing well into the late 19th century, those eligible to vote and be elected were a small minority of the population
OK, maybe I should state more clearly that the citizenship did appear among specific classes paying exclusive obligation such as Athen citizenship were only for those paid their military obligation. And I wonder such political system did appear in LOTR lore or not.
In addition, I don't know the Constitutio Antoniniana did spread citizenship among the majority of the Roman empire population for still having no specific data.

As to the combination "democratic republic", whenever it was used - like the former East Germany "GDR" (or "DDR" in the original) or the "DR" Congo - it was a safe bet that the government form was neither. Another favorite of totalitarian / authoritarian regimes is "People's Republic" ...
OK, let me clarify that my so-called democratic republic was strictly defined as having democracy as polity and republic as state system. Forget those "People's Republic", so dishonest fraud to thier country's name. XD
 
Neither Gondor nor Rohan (nor while it existed, Arnor) were parliamentary monarchies as is now the case with the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Sweden or Denmark. But all forms of rule tended to have some form of council, perhaps with senior members having a rank of minister or something equivalent. And sometimes a chief councilor resembling a prime minister. Where the nobility below the monarch was strong, these would probably consist of the hereditary heads, duke, counts and the like. Where a monarch was able to centralize power and reduce the influence of noble families, he (historically mostly he) would appoint the members of his council. Probably most royal councils were a mixture of the two.

For Rohan the natural councilors for the king would have been the marshals of the Mark (Gríma Wormtongue's position was highly unnatural).
For Gondor under Denethor, I can only think of Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth, under Aragorn additionally Faramir as Prince of Ithilien. But there must have been other councilors in both cases (in Rohan, too).

The Shire was an entirely different case. They had an elected Mayor (but JRRT never even hinted at who was eligible to vote), who was head of the postal system and the Shirriffs. Then the hereditary position of the Thain, for centuries residing with the Took family, while the Oldbuck family, who held the position earlier, had relocated east of the Brandywine River, their head becoming the Master of Brandy Hall, almost an equivalent of the Thain.
Hard to think of something equivalent in human history. As we find out in the course of LotR, the Hobbits' (mostly) carefree lives had been safeguarded, without their knowing it, by the Rangers of the Dúnedain chieftains of the north. Things went wrong pretty quickly for the Hobbits when this Ranger guard departed to join Aragorn in his quest after the Battle of Helm's Deep.
 
Neither Gondor nor Rohan (nor while it existed, Arnor) were parliamentary monarchies as is now the case with the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Sweden or Denmark. But all forms of rule tended to have some form of council, perhaps with senior members having a rank of minister or something equivalent. And sometimes a chief councilor resembling a prime minister. Where the nobility below the monarch was strong, these would probably consist of the hereditary heads, duke, counts and the like. Where a monarch was able to centralize power and reduce the influence of noble families, he (historically mostly he) would appoint the members of his council. Probably most royal councils were a mixture of the two.
Or perhaps binary constituitional monarchy? Such as Japan under Meiji Emperor's reign, many of their political leaders, selected from "Council-men" as being the parliament political system, even though produced via election, yet still composed of ex-nobles mostly, such as samurais. After all, noble is nothing but political rank, yet factual political and military duties such as stewards aren't, on the other hands, such as lord of Dol-Amorth is a duty yet prince is a title, hopingmy comphresion to JRRT's lore is not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong.
In addition, do you have any source that implied or mentioned directly those membership as council were not-elected, such as LOTR series, history of ME, and so forth?
 

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