Is what is said in this YouTube video true?

[Turin_Turambar]

I came across a nice YouTube video. According to what I watched, it says that Ecthelion killed 2 dragons. How true is this? Is what is said in the video true? Did Ecthelion kill 2 dragons?

 

[Server Room Gremlin]

I've come across videos similar to this before. 🤔 They often seem like they've been written with the help of AI, as they sound like generic fantasy stories, and can be unnecessarily repetitive and long-winded.

While there were dragons present when Gondolin fell, Ecthelion definitely didn't kill one by jumping off the back of a great Eagle and using 'force magic' to drive his sword through its skull... 😂

 

[Turin_Turambar]

I've come across videos similar to this before. 🤔 They often seem like they've been written with the help of AI, as they sound like generic fantasy stories, and can be unnecessarily repetitive and long-winded.

While there were dragons present when Gondolin fell, Ecthelion definitely didn't kill one by jumping off the back of a great Eagle and using 'force magic' to drive his sword through its skull... 😂

Perhaps it appears in some unknown early or later writings of Tolkien.

 

[Elthir]

Except for names, that's a very made-up tale by who knows who.

It's not Tolkien!

What we have, for example, in the very early Book of Lost Tales (written by a young Tolkien) is: Ecthelion is ultimately wounded (Balrog whip to the arm) "and his shield fell to earth even as that dragon of fire drew nigh amid the ruin of the walls" Tuor hews at the foot of the creature and lifts Ecthelion, saving him from the drake -- Tuor takes Ecthelion to the fountain, and after Ecthelion revives from a swoon, he ultimately takes on Gothmog and they both perish.

Also note, none of the "dargons" in this tale could fly. Anyway, the description I just gave is part of the longer description below. . . that is, if anyone cares to read the small print. See especially HMII below for mentions of Ecthelion during the early Fall of Gondolin,


____________________
Everything Ecthelion (almost)

As the following looks at an external history, some repetition is expected, but there are changes as well. Also, I've left out some references where Christopher Tolkien goes over the same information from the text.

The Gnomish Lexicon published in Parma Eldalamberon 11

Ecthelion "Lord of the Fountains. a captain of the Gnomes of Gondolin, who perished in the King’s Fountain at the sack of that city. (Tale of Tuor.) cp. aithl. -- aithl (ektl) a spring -- ectha- archaic or poetic to spout, jet. = cectha -- cectha- to spout out. cp. caithl. also ecthelin, etc. -- caithl source, fount. origin." GL (a combination of entries)

The History of Middle-Earth (HME), twelve volumes

HME I

Christopher Tolkien " . . . called Kosomot: this, it will emerge later, was Gothmog Lord of Balrogs, whom Ecthelion slew in Gondolin."

HME II

“Then came there from the south of the city the people of the Fountain, and Ecthelion was their lord, and silver and diamonds . . .” The Fall of Gondolin (FG)

Turgon calls a council, and “Ecthelion of the voice of music” attended. FG

pages 180-184 of FG describe that Ecthelion and his folk had been held in reserve till “now” – then Ecthelion calls for the drawing of swords and his folk slew more goblins “than fell ever in all the battles of the Edalie" -- it's also said that Ecthelion’s name is a terror among the goblins “to this latest day” and a warcry to the Eldar.

Tuor and Ecthelion continue the fight, and Ecthelion “shore through two captains of the goblins at a sweep” and then killed Orcobal “their chiefest champion” -- then he slays three Balrogs (here Tuor slays some seemingly notable Orcs as well, and five Balrogs).

Ecthelion is ultimately wounded (Balrog whip to the arm) "and his shield fell to earth even as that dragon of fire drew nigh amid the ruin of the walls" Tuor hews at the foot of the creature and lifts Ecthelion, saving him from the drake -- he takes Ecthelion to the fountain, and after Ecthelion revives from a swoon, he ultimately takes on Gothmog and they both perish.

Regarding the Balrogs in this version, I keep in mind Christopher Tolkien comments here: “The early conception of the Balrogs makes them less terrible, and certainly more destructible, than they afterwards became. . .” commentary, FG

“Mother Idril, I would we had good Ecthelion of the Fountain here to play to me on his flute, or make me willow-whistles!” FG

Ecthelion “was that lord of the house of the Fountain, who had the fairest voice and was most skilled in musics of all the Gondothlim. He won renown for ever by his slaying of Gothmog son of Melko, whereby Tuor was saved from death but Ecthelion was drowned with his foe in the king’s fountain.” Name-list to FG

Glorfindel “led the Golden Flower and was the best beloved of the Gondothlim, save it be Ecthelion, but who shall choose.” Name-list to FG

HME III -- no references

HME IV

“For Feanor was wounded to the death by Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs, whom Ecthelion after slew in Gondolin.” Qenta Noldorinwa section 8

“ . . . is much told in The Fall of Gondolin; of the death of Rog without the walls; and of the battle of Ecthelion of the Fountain with Gothmog lord of Balrogs in the very square of the king, where each slew the other, . . “ Qenta Noldorinwa section 16

“The orcs sacked Gondolin and destroyed the king and most of his people; but Ecthelion of the fountain slew there Gothmog lord of Balrogs ere he fell.” The Earliest Annals of Beleriand

HME V

“The orcs sacked Gondolin, and destroyed King Turgon and most of his people; but Ecthelion of the Fountain slew there Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs, ere he fell.” The Later Annals of Beleriand

“ . . . Lord of Balrogs, whom Ecthelion after slew in Gondolin.” Quenta Silmarillion chapter 8

“EK- EKTE- spear Q ehte spear, ehtar spearman. N aith spearpoint, êg thorn, cf. Egthelion, Ecthelion [STELEG] STELEG- N thela point (of spear); egthel, ecthel, cf. Ecthelion (see EK)"
The Etymologies

HME VI — HME IX -- draft history of The Lord of the Rings.

One mention in Volume VIII:

Note 13, Minas Tirith, Christopher Tolkien notes: "(. . .) Denethor's father Ecthelion was the second steward of that name (which derives from the legend of the Fall of Gondolin: see II. 212, footnote).

HME X -- no reference

HME XI

“ . . . but at last Gothmog*" [marginal note] "whom Ecthelion afterward slew in Gondolin.”
The Grey Annals section 45

“And Turgon appointed three lords of his household . . .”

“On B(i) only, my father penciled with reference to these opening words the names Glorfindel, Egalmoth, and Ecthelion, and also “On etymologies of Egalmoth and Ecthelion see note”
Christopher Tolkien, commentary to Maeglin.

Tolkien notes that the name Ecthelion is from the “primitive FG" but is well sounding and has been in print” [here "in print" does not refer to the Elf though]. JRRT adds that the name must be from Aegthelion. “Later element is a derivative of STEL- “remain firm””

“Her [Aredhel] escort though valiant chiefs would seem to have been so bewildered and daunted by the horrors of the valleys west of Esgalduin that they had never reached the bridge of Esgalduin or come near to Aglond. This makes it necessary, I think, not to name the most eminent and bravest chieftains (Glorfindel, Egalmoth, and Ecthelion) as her escort.” JRRT, Maeglin

HME XII -- no reference

Unfinished Tales

“Warden of the Great Gate” early 1950s revised Fall of Gondolin

“And high and noble as was Elemmakil, greater and more lordly was Ecthelion, Lord of the Fountains, at that time Warden of the Great Gate. All in silver was he clad, and upon his shining helm there was set a spike of steel pointed with a diamond; and as his esquire took his shield it shimmered as if it were bedewed with drops of rain, that were indeed a thousand studs of crystal.” early 1950s FG

“Then Ecthelion turned to Tuor . . .” early 1950s FG

“But Ecthelion bent his bright glace upon Tuor . . .” early 1950s FG

“For a while Ecthelion stood silent, looking at Tuor, and slowly awe filled his face (. . .) Then he bowed, and went to the fence and laid hands upon it, and gates opened inward . . .”
early 1950s FG

“Then Ecthelion said at last: “Now no further proof is needed; and even the name he claims as son of Huor matters less than this clear truth, that he comes from Ulmo himself.” early 1950s FG

“Ecthelion gave orders for the sounding of the signal, and trumpets were blown . . .”
among the hasty jottings indicating the course of the story, early 1950s FG

The Letters of JRR Tolkien -- no mention

The constructed Silmarillion published 1977, Christopher Tolkien

Of the four page references the only possibly “notable” differences from HME appear to be:

Of The Fifth Battle -- a Tolkien-written source for naming the captains Ecthelion and Glorfindel with respect to guarding the flanks of Turgon’s retreat toward the Pass of Sirion -- The Children of Húrin version of this battle -- see the tale as compiled and later published by Christopher Tolkien.

And a couple references in the chapter Of Tuor And The Fall Of Gondolin seem to be taken from the 1950s Fall of Gondolin and notes (Unfinished Tales).

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

 

[Elthir]

😄

The small part is a copy and paste of an older response of mine to another thread about Ecthelion.

And the words were bigger back then

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

😲

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

The video is laughably so wrong in many places. Hard to believe anyone could take this seriously.

The only YT channel I trust with AI-generated art (albeit sometimes comical) in its Silmarillion storytelling is The Cottage of Lost Play. (A true nerd would know that reference!) The channel has a wonderful three-part retelling of the Fall of Gondolin, and there's more Silmarillion stories, too.