• Welcome to The Tolkien Forum! Connect with fellow Tolkien enthusiasts and join a community that is over two decades old, and still going strong. We look forward to meeting you.  Register

Mortals in the Undying Lands?

There is no evidence that Wizards' bodies are any more mortal than those of the Elves. Gandalf had been around longer than all mortal lifespans at the time of The Great Years.
 
What of the line comparing them to "moths in a light too strong and steadfast."? I find this to be a clear reference to the Silmaril-like burning away of life Luthien and Beren experienced. Also, how does wither sooner refer to being dissatisfied? I don't think you have explained your point clearly enough.
 
Sirion just asked:

Also, how does wither sooner refer to being dissatisfied? I don't think you have explained your point clearly enough.

Just for reference, I will repeat the quote under scrutiny:


Remember this was said by the Valar's emissaries (I think, did not check that) to the Númenóreans when they were first murmuring agains the Ban of the Valar (that said that they could not sail so far west that they lose sight of their own island). My point of view is that this is a warning from the emissaries that could be substituted by something like "Do not try to fight your own nature, and become deathless. For there is not any power in the world save that of Eru Himself that can do anything about it, and the Valar certainly can't help. And if you think that simply living at the same land with the Valar would do you any good, then you are quite mistaken. For in the company of the deathless your mortality would be even more bitter, and you would be dismayed and rebel against Death with even more anger "

The bold portion is roughly the same in meaning to the sentence "you would but wither and grow weary sooner, as moths in a light too strong and stadefast", as I take it. It is not a literal reading, but it is supported by (a) Aragil's HoME quote that Men would live "little more than a half-year" (assuming "year" is a translation from the Quenya yen, which accounts for 144 years of the Sun, so this quote would really mean "little more than 70 years of the Sun", i.e., normal (without the Valar's blessing) human lifespans. And (b) the fact that Frodo is sent there to heal his wounds. Now is we assume that the "withering" is a literal event, and that Frodo would only "grow weary sooner", his boon (of going to Valinor) makes no sense, as was pointed out earlier.

This is my interpretation of that quote. I'd be glad to discuss it further if you wish, Sirion.
 
It had always been my impression that Frodo would go to Tol Eressea so he would be healed of his wounds and live a healthier and happier, if shorter, life. This is compared to a long life of reoccuring illness and suffering he would have had he stayed on ME.
 
In fact, some people say that Frodo would have had a shorter life in the Undying Lands than he would have in Middle Earth, although in a lot less pain.
It is said that by living in the Undying Lands, a mortals life force would be "burnt" away quicker.
 
I happen to agree. I mean, look at how long Bilbo lived. I mean, in the begining of the series, it was his eleventy-first birthday!!!
 
I think the professor was very clear in his letters that Frodo would not live forever

"Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him - if that could be done, before he died. He would have eventually to 'pass away': no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time." Letter #246

"I have said nothing about it in this book, but the mythical idea underlying is that for mortals, since their 'kind' cannot be changed for ever, this is strictly only a temporary reward: a healing and redress of suffering. They cannot abide for ever, and though they cannot return to mortal earth, they can and will 'die' - of free will, and leave the world." Letter #154
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…