💀Nazgul incompotent?

[Merlin]

Are you kidding me?? The Nazguls were the scariest part in the book IMO. I could just hear their 'screams' and it would send chills down my spine. What they did in Weathertop was militarily smart in theory. I just think they were too over confident, and like other people have said, they thought Frodo would pass quickly. They were my biggest fear throughout almost the entire book even when they were not really 'there' and the coolest bad guys. The fact that they are men makes it even more intriguing.

 

[TulKas Astaldo]

If they wanted to be so swift on Weathertop, why did they use a poisoned dagger? Personally I just would have cut him in half and be done with it.

Then again, it was pathetic how Merry, Sam, and Pippin fought them off for about 5 seconds when earlier in the movie they were killing people left and right...

 

[Evenstar]

posted by Merry-

The Nazgul were not incompetent in my opinion. They were out smarted and out-fought by resilient worthy characters. You could say that the Nazgul were ineffective, but not incompetent. Also remeber that they were neither alive nor dead, they would not have had the mental speed of a frightened hobbit or a king of kings.

True Aragorn, Frodo and compay were resiliant characters but as for the Nazgul not having the mental speed of a frightnened hobbit- isn't their lack of mental ability or sharpness supporting their incompetance?

 

[Treebeard]

I agree with you, Merlin. The Nazgul certainly were frightening. And yet, when it came right down to it, they simply could't get the job done. That's incompotance.

 

[dgoof911]

If they cant (technically) die, why were they so afarid to fight Aragorn. If he burnt their capes, wouldnt there just be a invisible naked Nazgul with the same powers ad potential? If he cut them with his sword, would they be harmed by it? Do they feel pain? Do they have fear? I am confused now.

 

[HLGStrider]

AH but they were facing my Strider... Strider is the greatest of the great...
"NO NO! Bad Sauron. My Plantir! Hands off..."
If he can battle wits with Sauron he can take on a few invisible cronies. He is what they once were... Except perfect...
Aragorn was a great man, as has been said before. The Wraith's weren't incapable of fear. They knew they were facing something great and they'd already got the knife into him, so they were playing it safe, avoiding the heir of Isuldur and waiting for that weak little creature to bring the fool to them...
"Your over confidence is your weakness, Mr. Nazgul," Aragorn says calmly.
"Your faith in your friends is yours," the Nazgul says with a disgusted snarl. He then tosses Aragorn a light saber... Oh boy... am I getting off subject... It is sacrilege to compare Aragorn to Luke. Luke wasn't anything like my perfect Aragorn... Am I getting carried away here?
I always thought that it was the daylight that hampered the search through the Shire, Aragorn said they were blinded by the noon time sun.
By the way, did anyone get the point of the squirmy things coming out of the bank in the movie? That was not in the book... unless I am having some amnesia... and it made absolutely no sense. Was the Nazgul calling those things, attracting those things, are scaring those things?

 

[dgoof911]

Well, all the worms and bugs coming out of the ground was supposed to show that every thing that is around the wraiths are effected by its evilness.

Could the heir of Isildur kill one of the Nazgul? I thought that they were not able to be detroyed.

 

[Snaga]

Have you noticed that only two people ever get physically attacked by the Nazgul: Frodo and Eowyn. Normally they rely on fear. Aragorn wasn't frightened.

Maybe they didn't have any other weapons with them. In which case they were ill-equipped. And therefore incompetent!

Or perhaps, and this is an interesting theory, Sauron only let them take ice-knives, so they couldn't kill Frodo and take the ring themselves??? Maybe he wants him alive. (I'm not convinced by that BTW)

 

[Grond]

Although I never understood why it wasn't used earlier, I always thought that the "Black Breath" which almost proved to be deadly to Faramir, Eowyn and Merry was the greatest weapon of the Nazgul. But maybe I missed something in the translation.

 

[Snaga]

Hmmm yes, not much toothpaste in Minas Morgul methinks!

 

[HLGStrider]

I think they attack Faramir too, if you'll remember, though I admit they seem to have a great psychological effect.
I don't think Aragorn could've destroyed them right then (He was only human, though perfect...), but they could've been unmasked or unmade or whatever the phrase is. You know, like at the Ford. Having to flee home and recuperate. I'm sure that could happen to them. Besides, why take chances with this nut with the brands when you've already got your knife into the little rat?
I think that the Nazguls could fear. They feared Sauron, but they also feared Glorfindel, I think Aragorn, and probably Eowyn in that one minute... They disliked the name Elbereth. If a hobbit can repel them with a word, imagine what Aragorn could do.

 

[riverwarder]

The Nazgul are not exactly incompetent if Sauron had ordered them to take Middle Earth by storm they would have ,but I don't think he wanted to let everyone know he was back yet. As to the incident on Weather Top it was really the words O Elbereth Gilthnielt that defeated the Ring Wraiths. Varda being more powerfull than even their master would naturrally have given them cause to flee. Though it is true that Aragorn did help at Weather Top he himself feared them if you recall when he spoke with the hobbits at Bree. Also in the Shire when they encountered the first Rider in the wood it was really the elven song that he ran from. In the movie many things happened that did not happen in the books. We can not jugde with this as a basis because Holly Wood must make the movie appeal to the generall public and no wants to watch a movie where the hero has to continnually get rescued.

 

[HLGStrider]

Great point and arguement, River... You solved it. You get the HLG reward of a big smile

 

[Grond]

Originally posted by riverwarder
The Nazgul are not exactly incompetent if Sauron had ordered them to take Middle Earth by storm they would have ,but I don't think he wanted to let everyone know he was back yet. As to the incident on Weather Top it was really the words O Elbereth Gilthnielt that defeated the Ring Wraiths. Varda being more powerfull than even their master would naturrally have given them cause to flee. Though it is true that Aragorn did help at Weather Top he himself feared them if you recall when he spoke with the hobbits at Bree. Also in the Shire when they encountered the first Rider in the wood it was really the elven song that he ran from. In the movie many things happened that did not happen in the books. We can not jugde with this as a basis because Holly Wood must make the movie appeal to the generall public and no wants to watch a movie where the hero has to continnually get rescued.

So the riders would have stormed Middle-earth at Sauron's command but the good Elves and Men of the world needed only sing some Elven songs or invoke the name of Elbereth and they would turn tail and run. I guess that makes sense.

 

[Eonwe]

without Sauron wearing the One Ring, I wonder how sort-of blind they were. I mean the power in the Ring is what keeps them going, what makes Sauron their master. Sort of like a mouse that you wind up and let go, good luck if it does what you planned (sorry squeeky).

Maybe with Sauron with the One Ring on, they would be (less) like the keystone cops. I wonder how baaaaad they were in the Last Alliance battles?

 

[Minas]

The Nazgul attack Gandalf on Weathertop I though and then they also attack Boromirs brother. They do rely on fear, normally to get the orcs to do all the hard work for them.

 

[HLGStrider]

I don't see what it's so that "Elbereth!" and elf song could chase them away, Grond.

Remember what Luthien did to Sauron and Melkor by singing!!!

Words have special powers in these books, especially elf words or those in the form of song. I think it is an excellent explanation.

Where Frodo wasn't nearly as powerful as Luthien I think it evens up because the Riders out in the middle of nowhere with their master blinded by the lack of ring weren't as powerful as Sauron and Melkor sitting in their palaces. Anyway, I wouldn't snub the theory. I like it!!!

horray for the theory!!!

 

[Grond]

Strider, I think that Elbereth is the most beautiful name in the entirety of the works of JRRT. That's my opinion. But, if all one needs to ward off evil is invoke her name then everyone would do it, and like Paul Atreides said in the Frank Herbert novel Dune, "I can kill you with a word!" On Dune, it is the power of the Kwisatz Haderach that spells doom, on Middle-earth one need only invoke the name of Elbereth and Sauron is defeated.

Sorry if that just seems a tad bit too easy to me.

 

[Harad]

In a world where Magic works, I wouldnt entirely dismiss the power of an invocation. Remember, that Sam whips some pretty LARGE spider butt using in part a similar invocation. That being said, its probably not the invocation alone, but it may add a cumulative effect, like Gandalf's white horses in the flood.

Still the idea that the Nazgul got what they wanted at Weathertop is possible: they thought Frodo was wounded and would become a wraith. Even that is hard to accept however, since if Frodo is still among the Elves and Aragorn, and if he did become a wraith, what is to stop his former buddies from taking the Ring from him? Shirley the Nazgul's idea wasnt to just harm Frodo--rather to recover the Ring.

The even worse "incompetence" is in the Shire where a lone Nazgul gets to within 100 cm of the Ruling Ring, then without reason, gallops off.

 

[HLGStrider]

I still like the idea...

Perhaps that was just a scout Nazgul who had to report to HQ (head quarters, of course), Harad.