Playing out Large Battles

[Confusticated]

I was thinking that in large or long battles things might become confused chronology-wise. Or some other way, for example players on the same side not working towards the same strategy. I don't know if such things were a problem in the chronicles or not? (I can't get over there to see how the battles were done.)

I went ahead and came up with an idea for a system we might use to keep our large battles in order.

The large battles with many players could have two types of players and posts in the battles.

The first type will be done by one person from each army or company. Not necessarily always the highest-ranking charcter. They will be giving the overall big picture of the battle. It is their job to describe, in turn, the battle from start to Finish without gaps or doubling up.


The second type will be playing characters in the battle, but will only be writing from their character's smaller point of view without remarking on the overall big picture in a way that contradicts what the designated battle-writers have set.


I've made up a very small and generic example. In this example the battle-writers are not telling the story from any one specific character's point of view, but you could easily do so if you like. I might have gone from Gothmog's point of view had he been present for the entire battle. Anyhow:




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Post One
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Battle-writer for Morgoth's Army says:

The orcs pressed forward and drove Maedhros's army against the hills. They fought there all afternoon, but eventually the orcs took the greatest damage and they began to retreat. The Noldor pursued them out into the plain, and there were shouts of victory when suddenly from the gates of Angband came Gothmog, and a company of trolls was with him.


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Post 2
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Goblin character posts:

Durbag gripped his spear and headed foward towards the elves. His fangs showed in a hideous grin, and he let out a sick laughter.

"I'm gonna skewer them good." He nudged the orc next to him.

Then coming upon the soldiers he began to hack and impale along side his companions, while steal swords rang against his iron armour.

He shouted with maniacal joy, and daring to dodge his way deeper into the company of elves he was hit on top his iron helm and fell to the ground.

He came to when a leg stumbled over his outstretched arm. He squinted his eyes open and saw the elves had just stepped over him and many other fallen orcs.

"Morgoth take your filthy hides." he grumbled, and got back onto his feet. He thought to sneak quietly, a wide way around the elves, back to Angband and slip in through the gates without catching Morgoth's attention. He was almost around them too when some red-haired elf gave a shout, and then a horse galloped up behind him. Durbag ran as fast he could but it was gaining ground. As it drew close he turned and ducked, and the elf's sword was deflected by his heavy armour, but the force of it thew Durbag to the ground. He reacted just in time, thrusting his dagger up into the horse's ribs.

It let out a neighing, funny to the orc's ears. That is, until he heard another set of hooves getting close. Quickly Durbag drove the dagger into the elf's neck and hobbled off over the plain and into the shadows of Thangorodrim.

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Post 3
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Battle-writer for Maedhros's Army says:

The army of Maedhros stopped pursuit and drew together. The orcs laughed now seeing Gothmog and turned back towards the elves before they could form for an attack. Maedhros ordered his cavalry ahead to break up the orcs and hew them down before Gothmog and the trolls made it across the plain. Some of the horsemen rode out to meet Gothmog with spears but it was ill done. Their horses were knocked from under them by the demon's whips, and then they were lashed and crushed into the ground. But then came Maedhros's company now charging through the scattered goblins and over the plain up to Gothmog. Gothmog stopped and looked back over his soulder, as if he checking back-up, but no one was there. Gothmog stood now with the trolls before him, and they swung their mighty swords and slammed their heavy hammers in a mess of carnage. After great loss to Maedhros's company only two trolls stood with Gothmog, and the elves encircled them. Maedhros came up now and took one the troll's head off as it placed himself between the elf and the balrog. But ere the dust cleared from the troll's fallen body Gothmog and had burst through a weak point in the near of the circle and fled faster than any elf can run.

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Poot 4
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Goblin's post:

Durbag was caught lurking near the gates and was scooped up and taken by a large wolf, and dropped before the throne of Morgoth.

"Well there little fellow." he said, in a mockery of understanding. "You fought hard now didn't you?"

Durbag was surprised by Morgoth's tone, and was distrustful of his words.

Them Morgoth reached out and took him by the neck.

"Coward! And fool!" he bellowed in Durbag's face. Durbag trembled.

"Have you not heard, Durbag, what happens to coward goblins who fly back to my Fortress in battle?"

Durbag was chilled though his core when Morgoth spoke his name. He had no idea how it was known to Morgoth, but then he heard such tales among goblins and enslaved Noldor. Yes, Durbag knew. He would die now, and not quickly. Morgoth would think up something especially nasty if he bothered to think of anything at all.

But Durbag had an idea.

"I know well what happens to them. Which is why I didn't return until it chanced that I carried an especially valuable bit of information. Far far more valuable than a goblin's life, my Lord."

At this Morgoth raised a brow and loosened his grip.

"Say more!!" he rumbled.

"When I was knocked to the dirt by the hills I came out of sleep and continued to fake it, so as not to get killed." he spoke as well and meaningful as he could.

"I heard two elves whispering about some hidden fortress. An Elves' fortress, my Lord!"

"Tell me what was said." Morgoth hissed now, and his eyes shone.

"He said 'That hidden fortress will never be discovered by... the enemy! If we survive this I am going back.' And the other one said 'I did save your life back there. For that I think you owe it to me. Tell me of this hidden stronghold, for no one else of our people knows of it and if you fall in battle I will never learn!' And the first fellow said 'I have not the time to explain its location. But we will both go there. I will show you after this battle.' Then the fellow laughed and said 'Very well! You have just assured your survival.'"

Then Durbag added "That was all they said. Well except for when the one that stumbled over my arm. Kicked my supposed corpse too! I know he ment to do it, because I saw his face very clearly, first annoyance, then 'nasty orc' then kick, then smile!" Durbag paused and added "Took great will to lay still too."

"Hmmm" said Morgoth. "Interesting", and grinned. Durbag shivered, such was the grin of the Dark Lord.

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Post 5
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Battle-writer for Morgoth's Army:

The elves slew the final troll, and there some shouts of victory but on the whole the mood was somber, for many of the best of Maedhros warriors had fallen to the trolls.

And it was just as well for the troll, for Morgoth had ordered them not to return while Maedhros lived. Before long Gothmog reached the gates of Angband and the ground rumbled beneath all of Lothlann.



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Some system like this could be used for large battles that have many posters. Just imagine if 6 or 7 other people were posting like the goblin did, about their personal experiences during the battle. That is how it would go.

I'm happy with this...but what do others think?

 

[Phenix]

it looks good, though I think that there should be more than one " battle planer" from each side. Myself I see battle posts themselves as one of the funnier thing with a battle, sure it's interesting to describe how your character feels reacts in the heat of battle, but the real thrill is to describe the advancement of troops, strategy and such, though from the commanders view. I know many feel the same and i think that having only a few persons dictating the battle could get frustrating, instead i propose a solution where every commander is able to post what their troops are doing in the battle

I’m to busy to type a detailed example right now but it would mainly look like this

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post1
Gumroth, General of the 7th army (armies have been stated before and we know he's commanding 1000 orc warriors, 500 archers, 250 wargriders)
he will describe anything he wants, what gumroth says, thinks, do, what he kills and such, as well as how his troops moves and what they do, as it's only natural that it'll be he who gives the strategic commands to his troops he'll be the one ordering them.
post2
Alrogath captain of the kings guard (200 men of the kings guard)
same as above, of course there could be more "good soldiers" around controlled by other players but he'll only say what his own troops does and won't do more than mentioning the other soldiers should they somehow interact with his own moves.
post 3
thelegon arigon(an elf , under the command of Alrogath)
He’ll type whatever he wants; he knows what alrogath has ordered him and his friends to do, now it's up to him to describe how he does it!
Post 4
erion ohlbion (elven commander, 200 elven archers, 50 elven riders 200 spearmen)
As the first two....
post 5
Sion (captain under erion, has 10 riders under his command)
He will describe how he and his ten compainions executes erions orders, maybe they get lost from the main body? Maybe they'll decide that this isn’t their war and run away? no one knows but it's important that sion and erion both know what's going to happen plot wise as it's important to them both

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As you see it's not that different from noms' idea other than instead of having 2 battle planers who describes things without being in a character it's the player played commanders who will make al the calls and decide what will happen in the battles.
This way ppl will get more freedom in the battle posts, but it might get hard to decide who will win. Like how much pressure can the elves take before they're forced to flee or be slaughtered? is it really possible for the wargriders to rush headstrong into 200 of the kings guards and come out with only 10 riders dead?? And things like that
As common sence is not always enough in these cases there might be need of some kind of battlesupervisor who by pm or ooc can discuss with the players exactly what will happen next and who will win... but the decision on how to get to the goal decided among the involved should be laid to the players themselves, al of them....

This basicly means that we merge the first and the seconf type of writing and lets anyone who can, post whatever they can at once...

 

[Confusticated]

I agree with you about each commander. Like I said "one person from each army or company"... depends on these size I guess, and how many players want to.

I don't think it matters how many as long as the sides work as a team.

But I've never RP'd a battle so I really need to know what others think.

No use putting unnecessary systems in place to hinder freedom. I hope more people will vote or post.

We may be able to get by without putting some guideline like this in place?

 

[Phenix]

maybe, though we should probobly have some rules, atleast when it comes to decide who wins and who loses and such...
About battle rping in general it's not the rping itself that's the probolem, players often "feels" when it's time to type something stretegic so everyone knows where the battle is heading and when to get all "deep" with their characters. The real problem often comes when the wining side is to be nominated. Some think that it should be the quaility of the post that decides who wins. Some think that it should be the military strategy in the posts that should desice wile some think that it shuld al be decided with the roll of a dice so to say...(if the armies are evenly sized this is)

 

[Alatar]

I think the Noms way is better as there is no diputes as one person says what will happen and others put there carachters right in the middle of it, if Noms goblin wants to run away, then he will, the person only describes it on a bib scale.

 

[Phenix]

in my version the goblin player could run away aswell. But the commander of one piece of the army, say thelegon(the elven commander) could in my scenario just as easliy run away since it's the player who controll him and his army that decides what will happen. Maybe he feels that it's not worth losing 500 elves retreats, letting the rest of the army be slaugherd. Sure he will have the whole good side ooc yelling at him for it. But plotwise this could acctually prove to be a benefit - al of a sudden we have the renegade elves of this and that who tries to make their way back hom e to explain, through the defences of their former allies....
the only real diffrence is that the bib scale descriptioning is adapted to everyplayer on the battlefield including the commanders and their armies

 

[Scatha]

In the old chronicles, mostly the battles wereplayed out one on one, but sometimes with a second party below the ruler, who was mostly in charge of the battle. Keeping the number of people involved in a battle to a minimun, prevents discussions on both short and longterm.

 

[Phenix]

índeed we did keep the combatants to a minimum, but i'm afraid that will prove rather difficult in this as the larger battles will take place between basically al the races and hosts of me. It's mainly for those battles we need some kind of rules i belive....

 

[Confusticated]

How about this:

We reference this thread as suggestions to players.

Officially however, we leave it up to the rulers to make sure that each battle is being played out in an organized way. He may have to communicate with the ruler of whichever realm he is fighting against to decide this, and work something out treating each battle differently according to circumstances.

How does this sound?

And if there should be a disagreement in how the battle is played (seems unlikely to happen often, since we all want an organized battle), it goes to the coucil of 3.

 

[Phenix]

yea i suppose that could work, proboly won't be much diffrently done than if we had had rules anyway^^