Uruk-Hai's beginning

[FoolOfATook]

Don't see Balrogs as a definite specie or race, like elves or ents. Balrog is sindarin for Valarauka, power-demon and in fact, who says the balrogs looked the same?

Hurin- Only when you said that did I realize that we really don't know as a fact that Balrogs were a race. I think that you just might be on to something, although it's worth noting that we also don't know that they aren't a race, or that they don't all look the same. But they definitely had to have been able to talk, for the reasons that you pointed out.

 

[aragil]

"Origins of the Uruk-hai?" You'll get them, allright, more than you can stomach"

-Ugluk the magnificent, referring to the thread Uruks vs. Uruk-hai

Sorry about dragging the thread back to topic. In any case, I have to say Húrin, I don't automatically trust Tolkien's writings from HoME, most notably his changing ideas on the origins of the Orcs. The usual Middle-earth canon (as far as I'm aware) is The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and sometimes The Silmarillion. These works are largely self-consistant, and represent Tolkien's fully conceived designs for Middle-earth. Too often in both UT and the HoME series we are presented with several different and conflicting accounts of how things happened, with no clearer idea of the 'truth' than whatever the Professor last wrote. Since they were never published in his life time, we don't know if even his 'latest thoughts' on an issue would have survived another round of consideration. For me the case of the origin of the Orcs is the best example of this. Tolkien went through several phases- stone golems, beasts raised to the levels of speech, elves, and finally men. However, in my personal opinion, the origin of orcs from elves is the best of these alternatives, and certainly the one which is most consistent with the list of 'Canon'.

 

[FoolOfATook]

If publication during Tolkien's lifetime is a factor in determing a work's status as "Canon", then The Silmarillion, published four years after our beloved Tolkien's death must surely be downgraded. Although I essentially agree with what you said about UT and HoME, in the matter of Orcs we simply have conflicting statements published after JRRT died, and we must chose from among these.

 

[aragil]

Originally posted by FoolOfATook
If publication during Tolkien's lifetime is a factor in determing a work's status as "Canon", then The Silmarillion, published four years after our beloved Tolkien's death must surely be downgraded.

Ha-ha but it was downgraded! I only said it was sometimes considered canon.

 

[Húrin Thalion]

And yes, that is in those cases you have to trust yourself if you do not get any help from Christopher Tolkien that has done a wonderful job editing all this together! I trust the piece that to me looks most trustworthy and since no one can know, that is as correct as anything, and from our disagreement rises discussions!

Húrin Thalion