What did 🧙Gandalf mean by 'Flame of Anor?' (merged threads)

[Lantarion]

Welcome to the foru, Caranthalath!
If you're too lazy to read the LotR + Silmarillion, the I suggest you get your rear in gear!!
Heh, but seriously though. You might understand the stuff in the movie a lot better if you read the book. It's much more exciting to find facts out yourself than to hear it from somebody else, am I right?
But as you seem to be lazy (and because I have nothing better to do), I will explain the phrase.

"You cannot pass," he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."

This is, IMHO, one of the best quotes in the FotR. ANyway, here goes (I hope nobody beats me to it while I'm writing, it's annoying when that happens):
The 'Secret Fire' would seem to refer to the Flame Imperishable, which is the creating spirit of Ilúvatar and by which He created the Ainur. So when gandalf says he is a Servant of the [Flame Imperishable] he might mean that he is the messenger of Doom and of Ilúvatar, as he is acting out the sequnce of events to be recorded in the history of the world.
Udûn also has a twofold meaning. It was a name for Melkor's fortress in Middle-Earth (Utumno), and was also referred to as 'Hell'. As Balrogs (Valaraukar) were spirits corrupted by melkor, the 'of Udûn' might mean that they are still serving the ourpose of their dark lord.
The flame of Anor I am not certain of, but I think this also might have symbolic meaning. Anor is the Sindarin name for the Sun. So when gandalf says he wields the flame of [the Sun] he might mean that he carries within him a fervor and hope that the Balrog would like to quench. So this phrase is an act of defiance towards the Balrog.
"Go back to the Shadow". Well, it's quite straightforward; it means "Go home!" ("Romani ite domum." ), "Go away!". A scornful dismissal.

Any more queations? READ THE SILMARILLION!!

 

[Ancalagon]

Hello,

You may find some of the responses in here could answer a few of your questions.

 

[Carantalath]

Thank you everybody. By the way, I did read the Silmarillion but I got confused by a lot of the names. I plan on reading it again sometime so that I might understand it better.

 

[Carantalath]

I went to the back of my Silmarillion book and it says that udun is Sindarian and it means tunnel. So, what I understand about this quote is that Gandalf has a little bit of the flame imperishable in him, which Iluvatar gave to all who he brought to life. Then, the flame of anor part has to do with the sun. I reread that part in the Lord of the Rings and it brings up that Gandalf used flashes of white light when he was on the bridge with the balrog. So, as it was said, anor is a name for the sun. So, Gandalf uses the light of the sun to go against the fire of the balrog. The flame of udun part is saying that the dark fire or evil fire will not help the balrog, who comes from the dark fire in tunnels.

Does that sound correct?

 

[Anamatar IV]

i havent read the book ina a while but i had thought it was flame or Arnor. I know that makes completly no sense but...

 

[pohuist]

You might also want to include in the expalanation the Ring of Fire Gandalf is wearing which is "secret" at the time.

 

[Mithlond]

Anamatar IV:
In the movie i noticed Gandalf says "Wielder of the flame of Arnor".
Either they've got it wrong or he is holding the 'A' for too long, either way it doesn't sound right.

 

[Confusticated]

Originally posted by pohuist
You might also want to include in the expalanation the Ring of Fire Gandalf is wearing which is "secret" at the time.

The Secret Fire is that of Illuvitar as Lantarion said above. Flame of Anor may refer to the Ring though, as I said above.


Carantalath, where did you read that Udun means tunnel? I've read that it means hell.
Flame of hell also seems to describe a Balrog better than does Flame Of Tunnel.

 

[Grond]

This has already been discussed at length in this thread Ulari's Flame of Anor thread

I will merge these two threads forthwith.

 

[Confusticated]

Originally posted by Gil-Galad
Well,Anor is the name of the Sun.The sun is a kind of giant fire,something which light goes everywhere and keeps hope alive.I would say that the ring of Gandalf has some parallels with the sun.Both they're fire and light and even hope.It's said that the ring of fire would keep people's hope ,just like the sun.During all battles when the day was coming and sun ligths always gave hope to the people in battles and they won after all.So I think the parallel between Anor and Narya is obvious.

This too is my thoughts about what Gandalf says about "Flame of Anor"

 

[Carantalath]

Carantalath, where did you read that Udun means tunnel? I've read that it means hell.

Well, I was mistaken. I looked in the back of the Sil in the index thing. Look under the word 'tum' and it means valley (sorry, not tunnel but valley.) Then, it says about Utumno and then Gandalf calling the Balrog the Flame of Udun. Did anyone else see that because maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me or something...

Anyway, to correct what I said before, Gandalf says that he is servant of the secret fire (The Flame Imperishable that was put inside of him), wielder of the Flame of Anor (Either Narya or the light of the sun). Then, when Gandalf says about the Flame of Udun going back to the shadows, he means that the Balrog is the Flame of Udun and he is supposed to go back into the earth.

Is that better?

 

[Gwindor]

Gandalf versus the Balrog

This seems to be quite clear to everybody, because I haven't found anyone asking about it, but anyway:
In the famous Gandalf's quote on the bridge of Khazad-Dum - what exactly does 'the Secret Fire', 'Flame of Anor', 'Udûn' and 'Shadow' mean?

 

[Celebthôl]

heres the best place to look:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

its got everything on LOTR on it, its the best LOTR website around!

 

[Ithrynluin]

This thread might be of assisstance:

http://thetolkien.forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9782

 

[Gwindor]

So it's as I thought (and feared) ... I am stupid .

Thanks anyway, all of you.

 

[BlackCaptain]

The 'Secret Fire' means he is an Ainu, Maia specificaly. the Secret Fire is not findable by anyone, and if it is estinguished, life is.

Flame of Anor means that he wields the flame of the sun. This probably means that his Ring, Ring of Fire, Narya, holds the 'Flame of Anor', Flame of Sun.

Udun is just the elvish name for hell. 'Flame of Udun' means Flame from Hell.

'Go back to the Shadow' just means you better leave us alone

 

[Rain-King]

More specifically, Udun was another name for the Pits of Angband, sometimes called Utumno. This was Morgoth's dwelling in the North of Middle Earth in the area called Beleriand in the 1st age.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Utumno and Angband were two different places. Utumno was Melkor's first dwelling. Angband was where he 'moved' to.