Where's 🧙Radagast? Anyone?

[DGoeij]

Apparently only the wizards Saruman and Gandalf were in the White Council, together with Galadriel, Elrond, Cirdan, and other leaders of the Elves. I'm not sure about Radagast.

Radagast, like Saruman, completely abandoned his task of helping Men and Elves in their struggle against Sauron. That was the reason the Istari were sent to ME. The faith of the blue wizards is rather unclear. After the destruction of Sauron, I'd guess Radagast would have been called back to the West, but if he actually went, I don't know.

 

[Lantarion]

From Unfinished Tales: The Istari.

Indeed, of al the Istari, one only remained faithful, and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-Earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures. Thus he got his name (which is in the tongue of Númenór of old, and signifies, it is said, 'tender of beasts').

And also, a few pages later:

Wilt thou learn the lore
of the Five that came
One only returned

This latter quote is the first words of the poem concerning the Istari, originally written in Quenya.

 

[Maeglin]

So only Gandalf went home? Thats sad But do you think that Radagast had the opportunity and just didn't take it?

 

[Mrs. Maggott]

If that's the case, maybe the next time we are in the woods, we should keep an eye out for the old boy! For my book, his love of nature and animals would save him whether he went home or not!

 

[Lantarion]

LOL, yes indeed.
Welcome to the forum, Mrs. Maggott (wow, that sounds so natural!).

 

[Brent]

Re: Why Gandalf call Radagast his cousin?

Originally posted by Glorfindel1187
Why did Gandalf call Radagast his cousin? Was it just so he didn't have to explain to everyone what he and Radagast really were and thought it would be easier just to say that? I mean they weren't really related were they? Unless they were born into the same family in the west, which would make Saruman and the other two their relatives as well. But anyway if Radagast is his cousin, and him and Gandalf still saw each othe reasonably frequently, why didn't he just ask Radagast to guide the company through Mirkwood? Radagast had nothing better to do, and I was told in another thread that he wasn't part of the white council, so he probably wasn't helping deal with the necromancer at the time when Gandalf left the company. Anyone have anything to say about this?

In a way they were of the same family, being of the same form but not directly related. The term "cousin" is often used thus in English e.g. Medieval Kings refered to one another as "Cousin" even when they were not related because they were both Kings divinely appointed. So Gandalf refers to Radagast as "Cousin" because they are both Istari.

 

[Grond]

Although I'm not sure that Tolkien intended it that way.... I like gate7ole's explanation the best. Varda and Yavanna are indeed sisters and children from their house would indeed be cousins.

The more likely answer, given that the actually history of the Istari was written post-LotR, would be the one forwarded by Brent.

 

[Maeglin]

But could it be that at the time The Hobbit was written that Tolkien meant to make them actual cousins born to the same family in ME, because after all, at the time of the Hobbit Gandalf and Radagast were just wizards, not all-powerful beings from the west of ME.

 

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Grond
Although I'm not sure that Tolkien intended it that way.... I like gate7ole's explanation the best. Varda and Yavanna are indeed sisters and children from their house would indeed be cousins.

Varda and Yavanna sisters? Where did that come from?
Yavanna's sister is Vana,and Varda has neither sister nor brother.
Unless you look at these sibling relationships like they are all brothers and sisters,because they sprang from Eru's thought.Then they are sisters,but then every Ainu is a brother or a sister to every other Ainu.
I don't think Gandalf really meant anything by "cousin".

 

[falcolite]

Yeah, it makes more sence to me that he just called him cousin, just like how some people call there friends "brother". A general term, to maybe show a more of relationship bewteen them than just two friends. Also, did Tolkien really have all those Maiar and Valar idea's thought up when he wrote The Hobbit? Im not to sure on that one, but as posted earlier, it could be likely, that they were meant to be just wizards born from the same family line.

 

[Grond]

Originally posted by ithrynluin
Varda and Yavanna sisters? Where did that come from?
Yavanna's sister is Vana,and Varda has neither sister nor brother.
Unless you look at these sibling relationships like they are all brothers and sisters,because they sprang from Eru's thought.Then they are sisters,but then every Ainu is a brother or a sister to every other Ainu.
I don't think Gandalf really meant anything by "cousin".

That would have come from here

from Morgoth's Ring, Ainulindale
...but Varda was the Queen of the Valar, and the spouse of Manwe, and her beauty was high and terrible and of great reverence. Yavanna was her sister, and Yavanna espoused Aule;

and here

from Morgoth's Ring, Quenta Silmarillion
...He is a smith and a master of crafts; and his spouse is Yavanna, the giver of fruits and lover of all things that grow. In majesty, she is next to Varda, her sister, among the queens of the Valar.

Since CT is not sure which of the written Silmarillions his father intended to be the proper one, we must look at all possibilities. In many of earlier and later writings, Yavanna and Varda are siblings; whereas, Nessa is sister to Melkor and Manwe.

 

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Grond
That would have come from here and here Since CT is not sure which of the written Silmarillions his father intended to be the proper one, we must look at all possibilities. In many of earlier and later writings, Yavanna and Varda are siblings; whereas, Nessa is sister to Melkor and Manwe.

Oh,alright.Since we really don't know which J.R.R. intended as the final version, I agree that we should at least consider the possibilities.

But the sibling relationships in the published Sil make more sense to me. All those who are brothers/sisters share some unique characteristic:

Nienna & Mandos & Lorien - all have some "spiritual" power

Nessa & Oromë - both "athletic",lovers of forests and the wild

Yavanna & Vana - nature

Yavanna & Varda just don't have any (obvious) connection ; Manwë & Melkor & Nessa don't either.

 

[Grond]

Originally posted by ithrynluin
Oh,alright.Since we really don't know which J.R.R. intended as the final version, I agree that we should at least consider the possibilities.

But the sibling relationships in the published Sil make more sense to me. All those who are brothers/sisters share some unique characteristic:

Nienna & Mandos & Lorien - all have some "spiritual" power

Nessa & Oromë - both "athletic",lovers of forests and the wild

Yavanna & Vana - nature

Yavanna & Varda just don't have any (obvious) connection ; Manwë & Melkor & Nessa don't either.

Well, let's see. Who are the two most powerful of the Valier? Varda and Yavanna. Who are the two most powerful of the original Valar? Melkor and then Manwe. Those two affiliations make a little bit of sense to me.

 

[Ithrynluin]

Well yes,power-wise they make sense,but what is Nessa doing as their sister?
I'll stick with the ones in the published Sil, for me they make more sense.

 

[Ithrynluin]

Radagast - really necessary?

This is more of a general wondering than a real question so I would like to hear everyone's comments.

There were 5 Istari who came to the NW of ME.The Ithryn Luin (the 2 blue wizards) vanished into the East.
Only Gandalf and Saruman are crucial to the plot,Radagast is a very minor character and I wonder was it really necessary to bring him into the story? His only relevant action was when he "lended" his birds to Saruman and when he "tricked" Gandalf to go to Isengard.
Was Radagast included in the story of tLOTR only because he remained in the NW of Middle Earth (so Tolkien felt the need to at least mention him,as the story of LOTR revolves around that part of the world)? Could the story had gone on without him?

 

[Goro Shimura]

He makes for a good contrast to Gandalf and Saruman... and there's no other logical way to get Gandalf to leave Frodo and go get imprisoned.


Besides, his dialogue with Gandalf is priceless:

"All I knew was that you might be found in a wild region with an uncouth name of Shire."

(Wish they put more of that sort of thing in the movie!)

 

[Ithrynluin]

Oh no,I am not saying I dislike Radagast or anything. I like his part however small it be.
Maybe Radagast could be omitted if Saruman had obtained his help and trust long ago,so Gandalf could still be summoned by (say) a bird or something.
I'm complicating things I know!

 

[Celebthôl]

Radagast isnt bad nor was he nor will he be, he was acting how his leader i.e saruman asked him to he was unaware of the danger he had put Gandalf into, he was also sent to ME to look after the trees and beasts, and he should have been included i think because he adds a nice part of the story, it gives it more depth.

Thôl

 

[Eriol]

I don't think he could be omitted, having being introduced in The Hobbit and living in the NW of middle-Earth. Also, he is useful for the imprisonment of Gandalf, there are not many messengers that he would trust implicitly as he did. As Gandalf said in the book, if any suspicion has passed in his mind, he would at least warn Frodo in person or approach Isengard with more caution..

By the way, don't you think the relationship Gandalf/Saruman is like Manwë/Melkor? I mean, Gandalf was completely unaware of the possibility of foul play by Saruman, just as Manwë could not comprehend the evil in Melkor. Melkor was the first evil, so the surprise is greater in Manwë and he takes more time to believe in Evil than Gandalf. Gandalf said in some parts something like "we are used to such treasons", but even so he was taken by surprise. Almost naively, one might say -- like Manwë.

Just a thought.

 

[Lantarion]

Ooh, calling Manwë naïve is not something to be played around with; is it, Big M? *thunder and lightning effects*
But: I think Radagast did not actually accomplish anything very contributing to the downfall of Sauron, althuogh this was his task. Even in UT his deeds before he strayed off the actively oppositional path are not even mentioned! But I suppose, or I guess, that his close contact with animals all over M-E might have kept the bird and beast-spies of Saruman and Sauron at bay.
But I would not have him be discluded from the book; his part is miniscule, but still good.