Since Tolkien's world is based in part on many myths of our real world it is not that unproductive.True enough, but I find trying to rationalize a fictional universe in terms of the real universe unproductive. However, if you find a historical example of a blade, magical or otherwise, used effectively against an undead being in our universe, be sure to let us know.
I did not say that the Witch king was invulnerable to other blades. However, Eowyn was not able to get in an effective attack until the strike by Merry. The Barrow-blade seems to have made him vulnerable to Eowyn's final attack, not to her blade which shattered on impact delivering the fatal blow. Did the Barrow-blade kill him? No. Would he have recovered after it was removed had he not been struck down by Eowyn? Probably. I think that had he been facing some of the other warriors on the field there would have been no need of Merry's blade, but Eowyn, despite her great heart, did not have the physical strength to destroy him on her own. Also there was the prophesy to consider.I also think this kind of invulnerability is too powerful. Even Sauron had reason to fear regular blades. And for me, it's "coincidence" enough that Merry should have in his possession a weapon that could do Mr. King great harm -- even if not struck lethally -- and "too much" coincidence (admittedly a subjective opinion, of course) to have Merry wield the only type of blade that makes a "wraith" (but they have unseen sinews) suddenly vulnerable to other weapons.
I would say no.I would say yes
Any sword, as long as it was wielded by a woman.I agree that any sword could have killed the Witch King had it struck the heart or other immediately fatal blow, I think that non-fatal strikes with other swords would not have the same effect as the Barrow-blade did.
Agreed. I only point out that the only real difference between the Barrow-blades and other swords is the metal they are made from. So if "no other blade" could do so then it is most likely this that caused the wound to be so effective at that time.
Perhaps through an "Allergic" reaction?
Iron is in some myths to have great effect on certain creatures.
The biggest difference is between the Primary and Secondary worlds: many things believed to be true in the former actually are true in the latter. The Men of the White Mountains really were cursed to a living death, until they fulfilled their oath, whatever they may have believed about the matter.There are many examples of weapons used against those who were Believed to be Undead. There is a big difference between what someone believes to be true and what is true.
Strange, I was not aware that I did not enjoy the story or that I do not take the author seriously because I did not feel that the "Spells" were necessarily actually effective magic. That the Barrow-blades were special was made clear from the very first time we see them described and there was no mention of the spells on the blades by Tom or the author at that time. I found myself in the position of someone who enjoys the story because somethings, such as the Oath-breakers have to be accepted just as they are while other parts are not so clear-cut and allows for "Applicability" whereby the reader can bring into the story their own views. For example, I know for certain beyond question that Durin's Bane did not have wings and neither did any other Balrog. I am also sure that Men had a form of "Magic" that is abilities that the Elves did not possess and could not understand. To me the "Spells" seemed to Elvish an idea but that did not spoil my enjoyment in any way and in fact was something that allowed me to enjoy it all the more.The biggest difference is between the Primary and Secondary worlds: many things believed to be true in the former actually are true in the latter. The Men of the White Mountains really were cursed to a living death, until they fulfilled their oath, whatever they may have believed about the matter. And, if we are to take the author seriously, we have to accept that there really were spells "wound round" the Barrow-blades, just as we we accept the many other marvelous objects and events in the story. They are part of the conventions of romance, and must be accepted as such, if we are to enjoy the story. Otherwise we are in the position of someone who can't enjoy Hamlet, because he doesn't believe in ghosts. We may rationalize the ghost as some sort of psychological projection on Hamlet's part, as "realist" mimetic fiction tends to do, but I doubt it'swhat Shakespeare had in mind.
Seems that I have taken the author at his word even though I interpreted Spells the way that it appeared to me before reading what his position was on "magic".I have not used 'magic' consistently, and indeed the Elven-queen Galadriel is obliged to remonstrate with the Hobbits on their confused use of the word both for the devices and operations of the Enemy, and for those of the Elves. I have not, because there is not a word for the latter (since all human stories have suffered the same confusion).
Now I'll tangent off this tangent (or OT from this OT) a bit (once the dam is broken …).... You need to be able to stand against unreasoning fear, keep your wits about, and fight well.
I did not say that the Witch king was invulnerable to other blades. However, Eowyn was not able to get in an effective attack until the strike by Merry. The Barrow-blade seems to have made him vulnerable to Eowyn's final attack, not to her blade which shattered on impact delivering the fatal blow. [snip]
As for "coincidence". Bilbo was "Meant to find the Ring" and "Frodo was Meant to have it". In Middle-earth there was a lot of influence from "outside" that helped things along so "coincidence" is not really an issue in one of the major events of the battle.
Or perhaps not so silent. It seems that Eru was involved in some parts so it may be that Manwë was also helping a little more than we are told. After all, the winds are his province more than Ulmo's.After decades of reading, I clearly see Ulmo having a hand in this (he rarely was in Valinor anyway, it seems, and disagreed with Manwë's decision to hide Valinor behind all of those confusing islands and mists and what not after the rebellion exile of the Noldor - and apparently to have his way against this decision - though perhaps Manwë (and Mandos) were in tacit, silent agreement with Ulmo's actions).
Working backwards, the first pertinent passage is in Reader’s Companion at the end of the chapter for “Knife in the Dark”. Hammond and Scull recite Tolkien’s notes on the chapter:Please come back soon, and expand on this! I hadn't considered it before, but the possible symmetries are tantalizing:
'There are evil things written on this hilt,' he said; 'though maybe your eyes cannot see them.'
So from this passage we learn thatIt is a strange thing that the camp was not watched while darkness lasted of the night Oct. 6-7, … so that [the Witch-king] … lost track of the Ring. … [The Witch-king] … had been shaken by the fire of Gandalf, and began to perceive that the mission on which Sauron had sent him was one of great peril to himself both by the way, and on his return to his Master (if unsuccessful);… [A]bove all the timid and terrified Bearer had resisted him, had dared to strike at him with an enchanted sword made by his own enemies long ago for his destruction. Narrowly it had missed him. How he had come by it – save in the Barrows of Cardolan. Then he was in some way mightier than the B[arrow]-wight…
Escaping a wound that would have been as deadly to him as the Mordor-knife to Frodo (as was proved at the end), he withdrew and hid for a while…
So here are some more ideas to hold onto.You were beginning to fade. … The wound was overcoming you at last. A few more hours and you would have been beyond our aid. … [T]here was some fragment of the blade still in the closed wound. But it could not be found until last night. Then Elrond removed a splinter. … It has been melted. [I]t seems that Hobbits fade very reluctantly. I have known strong warriors of the Big People who would quickly have been overcome by that splinter… They tried to pierce your heart with a Morgul-knife which remains in the wound. If they had succeeded, you would have become like they are, only weaker and under their command. You would have become a wraith…
So here’s another idea:A mortal … who keeps one of the Great Rings does not die, but he does not grow or obtain more life, he merely continues, until at last every minute is a weariness. And if he often uses the Ring to make himself invisible, he fades: he becomes in the end invisible permanently, and walks in the twilight under the eye of the dark power that rules the Rings. Yes, sooner or later – later, if he is strong or well-meaning to begin with, but neither strength nor good purpose will last – sooner or later the dark power will devour him.
So here’s the last little tidbit:[G]lad would he have been to know [the] fate [of the sword of the Barrow-downs] who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.
Sauron is implied to be incredibly powerful for a Maia. We know that the Ainur are on a sliding scale with the Valar having a notable gap between their weakest and the Maiar's strongest, so it's entirely possible that Sauron was on that near-Vala end of the spectrum. Olórin seems to be skilled but he stated that Sauron terrified him.
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