Why did the Watcher go for Frodo?

[Evenstar]

The Watcher in the lake of Moria

I was reading the "Why did Gandalf choose Moria thread?" and someone said that evil attracts evil which is why the watcher in the lake went for Frodo at the entrance of Moria. I don't believe that tough. If the ring did really 'attract' evil then why, as Harad pointed out before, could the Ringwraiths not find Frodo in the Shire. So, why did the Watcher go specifically for Frodo?

 

[Lord Aragorn]

I think that Tolkien needed something traumatic to happen to Frodo, so we wouldn't think that he was just cruising through the story too long without something endangering the entire hope of Middle-Earth.

 

[LadyEowyn]

What do you mean they couldn't find him? They followed him every where he went. And, it says in the book multiple times that the ring draws the Ringwraiths to it, because it wants to be found.

In answer to your question, here's a quote from the book.

'I do not know,' answered Gandalf; 'but the arms were all guided by one purpose. Something has crept, or has been driven out of dark waters under the mountains. There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' He did not speak aloud his thought that whatever it was that dwelt in the lake, it had seized on Frodo first among all the Company.

I don't think it was the ring itself that made the thing grab Frodo, but it did have something to do with Sauron.

 

[LadyEowyn]

Originally posted by Lord Aragorn
I think that Tolkien needed something traumatic to happen to Frodo, so we wouldn't think that he was just cruising through the story too long without something endangering the entire hope of Middle-Earth.

I love your name.

I have seen so many different ones, but I haven't seen anyone with my husbands name. Hmmm...I wonder why? He's such a great character.

By the way, I don't think I've had the pleasure of welcoming you to the forum. Welcome, and I hope you have a great time here.

 

[Greenwood]

Originally posted by LadyEowyn
I love your name.
I have seen so many different ones, but I haven't seen anyone with my husbands name

But, my Lady Eowyn, I thought you married the Lord Faramir?

 

[LadyEowyn]

Originally posted by Greenwood


But, my Lady Eowyn, I thought you married the Lord Faramir?

LOL. That's who I was talking about. No one has the name Faramir. I'm heart broken, he has a great name.

 

[Harad]

Lady E,
The Nazgul severely bungled getting the RIng in the SHire.

1. the lone Nazgul went right up to Frodo in the woods. Then galloped in the wrong direction
2.the Nazgul attacked crickhollow 3 days after frodo left

 

[LadyEowyn]

Yes, but what about what on happend on Weathertop? The Ringwraiths seemed to know exactly where they were.

 

[lilhobo]

the Nazguls could only smell, they were basically in the wraiths world, and they were too far from Mordor to be effective.....Maybe the one Nazgul wanted to wait for the other 8 since he was confidne to capturing the ring

but one thing is for sure, JRR wanted it be known that the watcher and the chief orctain knew what they were looking for, and that was the RING

 

[Bill the Pony]

Originally posted by lilhobo
but one thing is for sure, JRR wanted it be known that the watcher and the chief orctain knew what they were looking for, and that was the RING

Really? I have always considered that as an option, since Gandalf speculates about it, but is not sure himself. Where did you find that it's for sure that the watcher knew what it was looking for?

 

[Kuduk]

I agree with Bill. I gave my explanation on another thread from which I quote here the relevant part (I apologize if some of you have already seen it):

As for the 'evil magnet' theory, I would agree too much has been made of it, and this is based on the examples given by Greenwood (the Crickhollow attack, etc.), Harad (the lone Nazgul in the Shire), et al. Of course, the counter-examples of the Watcher, the Orc-chieftain in Moria, and the other apparent attacks on Frodo (other than the Ringwraiths) would suggest otherwise. But let me emphasize the word suggest. I don't think that there is ever an explicit statement that Frodo is attacked because of the Ring (again, aside from the Ringwraiths' attacks). However, that is not to say that Tolkien did not want us to think so. He is very artful in setting up those attacks so it looks like Frodo is being singled out. But is he really? I don't think the book really makes it clear one way or the other. While chalking things up to coincidence may seem like a cop out, it is a very human quality to want to find causal relations in things that have none, and I think Tolkien expertly exploits that tendency to great dramatic effect.

 

[lilhobo]

its called 'suspense', but too me its quite obvious if the author makes the enemy targeting frodo not once but TWICE and then have gandalf speculate about it.... Jesus, How obvious do you want the author to go about doing it????


PS. the NAzguls were said to be more effective in the dark, hence weathertop......Aragorn set up fire specifically to sacre them away

 

[Bucky]

Not only does 'The Watcher in the Water' go after Frodo (coincidence IMHO), but the orc-cheiftain makes a bee-line for Frodo & tries to stick a spear through him in the Chamber of Mazarbul....

On the Nazgul 'sensing the ring':
On Weathertop, they were searcing for the ONLY people in quite a large area, not a heavily inhabited region. Then Frodo puts the ring on & they see him & bear down on him.

As for the Nazgul not sensing the ring, just how far away from the ring is the Black Rider that talks to the Gaffer while Frodo stands around the corner the night they leave Bag End?
Maybe 10 feet?
And, he senses nothing.

BTW, I think attacking Crickhollow 3 days later is pretty god time.
We (The USA) should've been so quick in finding Bin Ladin...

Now, back to the 'Watcher in the Water':
Could it be the Balrog?
Remember Gandalf in Chapter 5 of The Two Towers:
He says of the Balrog, "It's flame was extinguished, but it had become a thing of slime, stronger than a strangling snake."

Now, that's a bit far fetched, but a possibility none the less.

 

[Snaga]

Erm Bucky, so after its blocked up the West entrance with a whole load of rocks, does it get out of the water, leg it over the mountains and come back in on the other side? I think you're on your own with that one!

 

[Legolam]

Maybe Gandalf wasn't speculating on the fact that Frodo drew evil things to him, but just that it was a close shave, and that he'd had a fright that the ring was almost lost so close to the start. Maybe he hadn't realised how fragile the quest was until then, because he's always gone on about how invincible hobbits seemed.

Pure speculation!

 

[Bucky]

Variag:

I said it was far fetched.
I don't believe it myself....

But, I would assume (it's all assumption anyways here) that there would be an underground passage from the water into Moria.

Remember, Gandalf says they fell from the Bridge at Khazad-Dum into WATER.
Gimli says nobody had ever measured the depth of that chasm, so it's unknown territory.

And Gandalf said that there were passages there beneath the deepest delvings of the Dwarves.
"Too well he (the Balrog) knew them all...."

So, far fetched as it seems, your rebuttle lacks all the available facts.

 

[Evenstar]

As for the Nazgul not sensing the ring, just how far away from the ring is the Black Rider that talks to the Gaffer while Frodo stands around the corner the night they leave Bag End?

Also, in support to this. When Frodo is at the gate of Mordor with the ring, a place where I woul assume its power is strongest, the Nazgul walks by him withot a problem. Well, he does stop for a moment but is not sure and moves on. So I don't know if he can sense the ring all that well.

 

[Eonwe]

I think he clutches the phial of Galadriel to move his attention elsewhere?

 

[Gary Gamgee]

The Nazgul are not masters of the Ring why indeed they have not touched it and remember the power of the ring grows ever stronger the closer it gets to Mordor. In the Shire of course the Nine may have passed it by, it was probably this reason why Gandalf himself choose the people of the Shire to do this job. He knew how their hearts were made.

 

[Lord Aragorn]

it was probably this reason why Gandalf himself choose the people of the Shire to do this job. He knew how their hearts were made.

I don't believe that Gandalf had any role in choosing the Shire to "do the job". Bilbo's finding of the ring was not anticipated by Gandalf, and the rest from there played out as it has. Gandalf wasn't even sure Bilbo's ring was the One for quite some time after Bilbo initially found it.