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Second-guessing and Misunderstanding Tolkien

Sure, Tolkien could write a different scenario where Faramir is the one who joins the Fellowship, and the Quest still successful, but it would be a different story entirely, and probably one not as satisfying; and there's a character study of each brother that's better realized as it is than it otherwise would have been.

Also, even if Tolkien writes Faramir into the Fellowship rather than Boromir, I'm still not sure how that would be better, unless it means Boromir ends up not dying, but even that's not a given.
I think we've been talking about different things here: I was was thinking about it in "in-story" terns. I agree with you that it makes a better story as it is. And, given what I mentioned above concerning Faramir's late appearance, I can absolutely guarantee Tolkien was not about to do a major rewrite! 😄

I did go and look at the Quora posts; most of the discussion seems fairly reasonable to me, both pro and con, for what they're worth.

Speaking of which, let's move on to another question I saw there! 😁

Did Boromir find the Fellowship of the Ring in Rivendell?

"Yes, but it wasn’t easy. The Hobbits all hid under benches or behind decorative topiary."
 
Faramir being a late -- and by the author unwanted -- entry into the story, I assume Boromir's words to the Council about his brother were retrofitted. There's probably a note by Christopher somewhere, but the chapter went through a number of tangled changes, and I'm too tired-- or lazy -- at the moment to try to track it down.
This is the decisive external reason. By the time Faramir "appeared unbidden" to JRRT in Ithilien, Boromir's death and the splitting up of the Fellowship at Amon Hen / Rauros lad (long?) been written. And I think that Frodo and Sam going it alone to Mordor (and meeting Gollum) was a central point for JRRT (I don't remember enough of the 3.5 books of HoMe in which Christopher Tolkien described the "gestation" of LoTR to be entirely certain of this).

At any rate Boromir at Henneth Annûn would have been disastrous. Something that PJ came close to describing in his mutilation of Faramir, having him take Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath for some addle-brained need for "character development". Which, as with the case of Merry and Pippin tricking the Ents to go near Isengard (PJ's forgery having them reject action against Saruman at the Entmoot), "development" seems to need under 59 seconds to be accomplished ...
 
This is not another "Why didn't they use the Eagles" thread though that topic is briefly discussed here. This is more a thread examining the seemingly constant stream of "Why didn't..." questions on sites like Reddit and Quora. The Eagle-related ones. Ones that ask why the Valar don't intercede. Etc.

Questions about the Eagles and the Valar might be excusable (if not valid) if the askers don't look into the logistics of the story or the background of the writing of the book or, of course, the need to create an engaging story (and, truthfully, how many works of fiction are flawless and without contrivance?). Almost needless to say, Tolkien did not set out to write a sequel to The Hobbit of his own volition, but acquiescing to publisher and public request, he came up with The Lord of the Rings. In doing so, in choosing Bilbo's ring as the genesis of the idea that he would develop, he was perhaps operating under certain constraints. So, whatever flaws one might perceive in the work, I think one must consider the circumstances under which it was composed. If Tolkien had conceived of the idea of the Rings of Power from the start on his own (meaning without the demand for a follow-up to TH) we probably would have had something very different, and one possibly even better than what we were given. And what we got is fairly magnificent, especially considering the circumstances.

But there are some questions that go beyond the pale and look at other reasons why they think the course Tolkien took was the wrong one. One such question asks (to paraphrase), "Would it not have been more reasonable to give the Ring to someone who could control it, but not too strong so that the Ring could be taken from them?" :confused: To my answer in which I basically said, no, it would not be more reasonable, the person replied that the plan in the book is "stupid"; that Sauron should logically have figured out that, since the Ring was not being used against him, that he would have figured out that the plan was to destroy it. :oops:

Honestly, I couldn't be bothered to explain that the answer to this is in the book and that it takes more than a cursory reading to find it. If you don't accept the explanation, I guess take it or leave it and find something else to read, but I didn't even feel like saying that.

How would/do others here respond to such questions, if at all?
To me, the Ring needed to be in the hands of innocence. It needed to be with someone who was unspoiled by the world and its influences. Frodo was the epitome of innocense.
 
To me, the Ring needed to be in the hands of innocence. It needed to be with someone who was unspoiled by the world and its influences. Frodo was the epitome of innocense.
Indeed he was - yet even he was burdened greatly by the Ring at the end, so much that he had to sail to Valinóre for healing.
 
From reddit this time (I'll just leave this here without further comment):

Theory on why the ring could only be destroyed in Mt. Doom​

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Curious if there is any textual evidence that can disprove this theory...
We are told that the ring could only be destroyed by taking it to where it was forged in the Cracks of Doom in the depths of Orodruin. What if the reason that this particular place (rather than any other volcanic/geothermally active area) is the only place the ring could be destroyed is because the Cracks of Doom was actually where Maedhros lept into the chasm of fire with the Silmaril? Perhaps the forging and destruction of the Ring was only possible there because Orodruin contained the power of a Silmaril within it?
 
From reddit this time (I'll just leave this here without further comment):
Just for laughs:
The Phial of Galadriel had light of the same origin as a Silmaril (at least I think that's correct).
We know a Silmaril could burn the flesh of evil dudes like Morgoth and Carcharoth.
We know the ring contained much of Sauron's evil power.

What if Frodo had brought the Phial into contact with The Ring?!?!

Frodo might have been walking around the whole time with an instant ring smelter right in his pocket! o_O
 
The part about the dream which causes Boromir to seek Rivendell always leaves me a bit uncertain. Boromir tells The Council:
"...a dream came to my brother in a troubled sleep; and afterwards a like dream came oft to him again, and once to me."

So, according to Boromir, Faramir had the dream multiple times, and Boromir had the same dream only once.

Why would a prophetic dream be sent to one brother multiple times and the other brother only once? My feeling (with uncertainty) is that Boromir never really had the dream at all. He only heard the dream described to him by Faramir. Then, he somehow (due to his pride) convinced himself that he also had the same dream. Then, again due to his pride, he took upon himself the mission that was actually meant for Faramir?

I'll be interested to hear if anyone can shed any light on this for me.
I always assumed Faramir was constrained from leaving by Denethor. Boromir would be less inclined to be constrained and it's possible once BOTH had visions Denethor let the one he trusted more leave.
 
At any rate Boromir at Henneth Annûn would have been disastrous. Something that PJ came close to describing in his mutilation of Faramir, having him take Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath for some addle-brained need for "character development". Which, as with the case of Merry and Pippin tricking the Ents to go near Isengard (PJ's forgery having them reject action against Saruman at the Entmoot), "development" seems to need under 59 seconds to be accomplished ...
So many issues in The Two Towers film, and STILL that was the worst one.
 
And how did it work out?
*deep breath* Okay. So most of the story proceeds as the book. There are minor differences with who does and says what and what their motivations are. I will cover the major changes:
Things went roughly the same until they got to Moria. Glorfindel was the leader, in lieu of Gandalf. While in Moria Glorfindel caught Gollum while they were camped for the night. Gollum was tied up in Elven rope and Glorfindel was unsympathetic to his whining about how it burned. This proved less helpful when the constant complaining alerted the Orcs to their presence. Glorfindel confronted the Balrog on the Bridge but had his spear destroyed and was thrown to the far side. Radagast then sacrificed himself by destroying the bridge, with the Balrog on it, and falling into the pit.

They proceed to Lothlorien. Gollum's month long stay in Lothlorien is transformative and Frodo decides to take him with them. Here, again, much of the story proceeds as the original until Rauros. Frodo, having contemplated the effect the Ring had on Gollum, decides to proceed alone but is, of course, caught by Sam. Gollum rightly points out that they need his guidance and he goes as well. Merry and Pippin are taken by Uruk-Hai but the rest of the Fellowship remains in tact and no one dies (Glorfindel is the one ambushed but he'd been given a reforged Aiglos by Galadriel to replace his destroyed spear).

The Fellowship track the Uruk-Hai across the plains. Meanwhile Frodo, Sam, & Gollum make much better time through Emyn Muil and are two whole days ahead of the original story. In Fangorn, Aragorn, Odin, Glorfindel, Faramir, & Folco encounter Radagast the Green. It seems he fair slightly BETTER than Gandalf once he and the Balrog hit the underground lake as Radagast shape-shifted into a giant squid (he's a master of "shapes and hues" after all) and succeeding in keeping the Balrog extinguished in the water until their fight drew the attention of the Nameless Things that dwelt in the water. They attacked them both but Radagast shape-shifted into a small fish, escaped their grasp and notice, and made it to the shore. He waited for the Balrog who slew the creatures and then headed up the Endless Stair. Radagast followed and they emerged at the peak. The Balrog was exhausted from the constant fighting and climbing but Radagast was comparatively fresh. The Balrog was unable to reignite until late into the fight and so Radagast prevailed but was also slain (he was still much less powerful, or martial, than the Balrog). Like Gandalf he was sent back to aid in the fight.

Here things return to the main narrative. The healing of Théoden, of course, goes differently. Things really change once we get to Orthanc. Radagast's pleas hit differently than Gandalf's. They were sent from Valinor together, after all (at Yavanna's pleading), and Saruman was never jealous of Radagast. Saruman relents and places himself into Radagast's custody and hands over his Palantír. There's more to this than I'm going into but I don't have the space to lay it all out. Pippin looks into the Palantír and he, Radagast, and Saruman go to Minas Tirith.

Meanwhile, Frodo, Sam, and Gollum happen upon Rangers in Ithilien. Boromir (who had been out gaining news on the Ranger's status) wishes to take them back to Minas Tirith when he perceives they carry something of importance to the Enemy but Gollum assaults him and Frodo, Sam, and Gollum escape. They travel through Cirith Ungol safely and are uncaptured.

Pippin in Minas Tirith goes largely the same as the book save Denethor and Saruman verbally spar. Boromir is there but keeps silent about finding Frodo, Sam, and Gollum as he is embarrassed that they escaped but Saruman and Denethor perceive he is keeping information hidden.

Folco is taken in by the Grey Company (specifically Halbarad).

The Battle of Pelannor Fields proceeds largely as the book. Halbarad is saved by Folco. Saruman is the one who helps Pippin save the unconscious Boromir from Denethor's madness (Radagast was unable to keep Saruman in tow during the battle so he'd placed him under "house arrest"; Pippin went to Saruman first as Radagast had transformed into a Great Eagle and was engaging the Nazgûl; Saruman was not motivated by goodness but by a desire to regain his pride (and Denethor was acting like a fool)).

The march to Morannan is largely the same save there is no fight; the Ring is destroyed before the Mouth of Sauron can even speak.

In Mordor Frodo, Sam, and Gollum evade all detection and make it to Mount Doom. When Frodo refuses to destroy the Ring, Gollum is incensed at the betrayal of his master and attacks Frodo. They fight, Gollum bites off his finger, and then he falls into the lava. Frodo and Sam are rescued by Radagast in the form of a Great Eagle.

Things proceed as the book again until Gandalf arrives for the Coronation (he'd been up at Erebor during all of this, where his efforts saved many lives). Gandalf is surprised at Radagast's growth but before he can speak to Saruman, Radagast intervenes and states there's nothing more to be said: Saruman will return to Valinor as Radagast's detainee. After the coronation everyone returns home. Radagast sets sail immediately while Gandalf wraps up any loose ends. Boromir abdicates the role of steward to his brother (in shame of failing into temptation compared to his more valourous brother). His is assigned to Osgiliath and retains his role as commander of the armies. Gandalf, Glorfindel, Galadriel, Elrond, Frodo, & Bilbo set sail across the sea.
 
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Sounds like a fun game. Although with all the changes, I was kind of hoping at the end Frodo would bite off Gollum's finger. 😅
lol I didn't even think of that. To be honest, it was less creative than the subsequent two alternate Fellowships I've developed, but they haven't made it to the RPG table yet.
Alternate #2 ("The Hobbit" inspired): Rómestámo, Tauriel, Thorin III Stonehelm, Bard II, Frodo, Sam, Grimbëorn, Gwarin, son of Dwalin.
I made these AFTER the first campaign so Radagast was on that roster rather than this one, where he would have fit better. Regardless, here are the story elements I came up with:
Rómestámo is portrayed very similar to Uncle Iroh from Avatar: The Last Airbender (a skilled warrior who enjoys tea and is filled with sagely wisdom). Tauriel has grown fey since the death of her love and subsequent exile (my version adheres to the book so all of her interactions with Kili happened while Bilbo isn't there). Tauriel has become a kind of wandering ranger. She helps travelers when she can and spends most of her time around the Woodmen of Mirkwood or the Bëornings with occasional trips to Dale (but never Erebor). Thorin III and Bard II are good friends and it is Bard who laughingly relates how Thorin III got his sobriquet. Thorin had been in a battle with orcs and lost his helm. He was thrown into a rockface and would have had his head split in two if a rock hadn't fallen off the cliff and landed on his head, knocking him unconcious but saving his life. Thorin is displeased with this story. Gwarin is Thorin's manservant and cook (akin to Sam). He is considered something of a family disappointment. The North Pass is not closed to Grimbëorn and the Bëornings so they do, indeed, go that route but they will be ambushed on the edge of Mirkwood and Tauriel will sacrifice herself to save them. She dies hoping she will get to at least see Kili again.

Alternate #3 (The Sea): Morinehtar, Gildor, Ar, son of Nar, Halbarad, Frodo, Sam, Galdor, Elphir, son of Imrahil.
I have much fewer plot elements for this lot but here they are:
Galdor convinces the Council to take the Ring south via the Sea. Since Sauron is expecting them to take a sea route a False Fellowship is create to act as a decoy (Gandalf, Legolas, Gimli, Boromir, Merry, Pippin, Aragorn, Tauriel, & Gwarin). Morinehtar is portrayed similar to Captain Nemo in the League of Extraordinary Gentleman film: stiff and stern but a skilled warrior and extremely experienced and knowledgeable. Nar is a dwarf archer. Smaller and less burly than most, he is the closest you'd get to a spy you'd get among good folk in Tolkien's lore (Nar is a dwarf deleted from the final drafts of LotR).
"Radagast the Green". I love it! 😁
I was rather proud of it. I couldn't imagine him as Radagast the White as he wouldn't really fit as the new leader of the Istari. I had to choose another earthy colour and Green worked. He's a paler green though. Like early spring.
 
Say, Radaghast, I'm not a Quora member, so maybe you'd like to go through this thread and correct some of the mistakes:

 

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