What PJ got right

[Deimos]

Over the years since the movies first came out (dear lord it's been, at least 20 now! 😱) folks who have both seen the movie AND read the books, and know that I have done both, have asked me what I thought about PJ's movie.

I have said (and continue to say) PJ got it about 80% right and about 20% wrong.
But of those things he got right some he got very, very right and of the things he got wrong, most of those he got very, very wrong.
About those very wrong things, we have the current thread on the 5 things you would change/ fix in the movies.

So, what do you think PJ got very, very right in the movies?
I understand that he didn't write the music, he didn't build the miniatures or the big-atures, he didn't make the costumes/armour/ weapons.
But as director he had the final say of how something was done/shown. So that is why I'm phrasing it as 'what PJ got right'
Even if you no longer watch the 3 movies start to finish, what are those scenes, just because they were so well done, so visually (or musically) impressive, or inspiring, whatever the reason, that you keep you keep going back to watch?

 

[Aramarien]

I've said this many times on other threads, but the best thing that PJ did was to hire Alan Lee and John Howe. These two wonderful artists have faithfully illustrated Tolkien's works for decades. They both have said that they always very carefully study what Tolkien wrote and try to completely understand it before they would illustrate a scene from the books. This is evident in how wonderful the visuals are in the films. The best example of this is the foyer of Bag End. Tolkien illustrated this for the Hobbit and Alan Lee took that illustration and enhanced it for one of the Tolkien calendars so many, many years ago. (I actually have that calendar). When I saw the films, lo and behold there was that wonderful illustration (based on Tolkien's original) come to life!! It was magical. The chandelier that Gandalf bumps his head on is in both illustrations.

The map of the Lonely Mountain in Bilbo's study, Rivendell in the distance, Minas Tirith, the Hornburg. The paddles of the Lorien boats were shaped liked leaves, the leaf shaped broaches on their cloaks.
A few quotes that I waited for: "Fool of a Took!!"
I loved Sean Bean's portrayal of Boromir. No matter how many times I had read the books, I never completely could picture him. But Sean Bean nailed his character and me, who had read the books so many times finally "saw" him. Arrogant and proud, but as a Captain of men. Yet loyal and brave. Merry and Pippin both liked him. The one scene that was added to the movie that was not in the books where Boromir was teaching Merry and Pippin how to use the swords with Aragorn watching and commenting is one I really liked. It was something that I believe "could" have happened and was in keeping with the characters. Scenes like this that were in keeping in with the characters I had no problem with.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I've said this many times on other threads

I'm not sure which ones you mean, but here's a similar one:

PJ: What He Did Well

So, looking through the forum, there is a lot of negativity regarding PJ's movies. Of course - they left much to be desired, but what do y'all think that the films portrayed/did particularly well? Personally, I really enjoyed the Nazgul. As a nine-year-old, watching the movies for the first...

thetolkien.forum

And here (gulp! 😳) is another:

https://thetolkien.forum/threads/are-the-films-superior-to-the-books-in-any-way.16994/

 

[Deimos]

I'm not sure which ones you mean, but here's a similar one:

PJ: What He Did Well

So, looking through the forum, there is a lot of negativity regarding PJ's movies. Of course - they left much to be desired, but what do y'all think that the films portrayed/did particularly well? Personally, I really enjoyed the Nazgul. As a nine-year-old, watching the movies for the first...

thetolkien.forum

Oh, sorry...there was already a thread about this....guess I should have done a search first. 😬
Feel free to delete this thread since it falls in the "Department of Redundancy Department."

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Nah, that's okay -- if people hesitated about starting threads out of fear of repetition, I'm afraid we'd never get any new ones -- after all, this forum's been around since before the movies came out.

Of course, the old threads are still around, and available to dig through. There's a lot of interesting stuff down there in the catacombs, and members are always welcome to resurrect any ancient cadaver they want to add to -- we don't mind necroposting here! 😀

 

[Vorondil]

The movies are actually my favourite movies that I have watched so far, I think PJ did everything right except for Arwen.

 

[Jimbo Baggins]

The movies are actually my favourite movies that I have watched so far, I think PJ did everything right except for Arwen.

You know, Canada had a brand of tobacco that was popular called Peter Jackson’s back when the movies released. They had a horse on them. No one smokes them anymore, though.

PJ also got left and got milk.

 

[Vorondil]

PJ also got left and got milk.

Uh?

 

[Jimbo Baggins]

Uh?

Deimos said what Peter Jackson got right? Well he’s got rights, he’s got lefts and he’s got milk.

 

[LaurelinBearsFruit]

I know and understand the animosity that is directed towards the PJ movies, and I agree with many of the complaints (i.e. Aragorn being forced into the reluctant hero cliche, Arwen's strange expansion and portrayal, the Ents needing to be convinced to deal with Saruman, Gimli always being the butt of a joke, the tragically twisted portrayal of my boy Faramir, etc.), but I do think that the movies had to strike a balance between honoring the books and readers and being accessible to entirely new audiences.

I don't really mind a lot of the things that they had to leave out, and while I disagree with all of the above changes I still enjoy the movies quite a lot. I grew up with them (I was 6 when Fellowship was released) and I watched them all the time with my Grandpa, so they will always hold a special place in my heart. And as @Aramarien said they did have a lot of attention to detail with how the world itself was lovingly created.

I try to take the movies as their own thing that while not always keeping to the lore of the text, they do keep the spirit of Middle-Earth alive as well as any films could have. And now that we have RoP to contend with, the contrast is clear. I would not call myself a "PJ apologist" as I have seen some of you mention, but I love the movies as their own thing all the same. The Hobbit movies on other hand...

 

[Ent]

The Hobbit movies on other hand...

If you've read any of my posts, you know I agree with about all you say above.
I also feel the hobbit movies are a little bit 'harder to take' so to speak.
Yet for me, they have their good points... as does even RoP, though it takes a 3rd step down the rungs on the ladder I do fear.

If we only ever did, or read, or watched, or cooked, or cleaned, or dressed in, or helped out, or worked at, or worked for, (keep going......) that which we really, fully enjoyed, I fear we would all be but couch potatoes, burping, drinking beer, eating chips, and staring at the celing. (And even then, we'd probably dislike the paint color, or the paint used, or how it was applied, or....)

All in all, the human can be, and usually is, a very fickle beast, rarely taking thought for the end result...the final determination...about what and where its statements, thoughts, or complaints really ultimately lead to, and/or say about its adaptability for the future.

The human likes to think it is progressing.
It is deluded in other areas as well.

 

[Halasían]

What did PJ do well in his Lord of the Rings project? He got a lot of the scenery right as far as my mind's eye is concerned. The Shire was captured quite well, and sans the Merry and Pippen comedy show, Hobbiton and the party was done really well. As your shared image attests, he took a nod from Ralph Bakshi and brought his Black Riders to life. I especially liked the scene where the Nine Black Riders come forth from Minas Morgul!


Likewise the Prancing Pony. It was visually well done, and the scene introducing Strider with the glow of his pipe on his hooded face was excellent. Barliman was excellently cast and played, and he even the the Squint-eyed Southerner pretty much right.

He did ok in making the Uruk Hai look close to what my mind's eye had in mind visually. Also, Amon Hen looked good, as did the many 'ruins' depicted.

Another scene I thought was excellently done was Gandalf descending in to the archival basement of Minas Tirith and looking through the old parchments for Isildur's accounts. I led off with a pic of it.


I liked the Council of Elrond overall as far as visuals go (though Rivendell looked a bit 'gazebo-ish' to me). It was easily overlooked, and the scene with Aragorn and Arwen on the bridge with the waterfall was excellent. and I thought the ruins of Amon Sûl and those around Eriador, and the Moria scenes were visually well done.

Some other notable scenes I thought were done well are the Breaking of the Fellowship, Boromir's funeral boat, and the Emyn Muil. Meduseld was well done, and I thought that Helms Deep looked alright. Overall, I give PJ a 6+ out of 10 for scenery and setting. Don't get me started on the screenplay writing though... that is a 3 out of 10.

 

[Deimos]

... The Hobbit movies on other hand...

The Hobbit movies on NO HAND 🙄😣

 

[Olorgando]

We have JRRT's letter #210 to Forrest J. Ackerman, from June 1958, from Humphrey Carpenter's book, in which JRRT basically runs the proposed animated film treatment through a blender.
We have Ralph Bakshi's 1978 animated plus version which lacks the second film to get from Helm's Deep to "Well, I'm back."
PJ's original pitch had been for two films, which drew the response from the studio trolls for a single film (the über-troll Harvey W., notorious in many other ways, deserves a life sentence just for this).
Then New Line Cinema did some preschooler arithmetic: "Lessee, there's three fat books ... hmmm ..."

Compared to stuff like that PJ is Michelangelo, Beethoven, etc.

And each film had something that I hadn't experienced in a cinema for ages - an intermission!

I can understand that from a film-only perspective, PJ's trilogy is rated by many at the top of the heap compared to any other film trilogy.

But to use the Ainulindalë as a metaphor, there are just too many Melkor moments.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

he even the the Squint-eyed Southerner pretty much right.

​

Yeah, that's me alright. 😏

 

[Deimos]

We have JRRT's letter #210 to Forrest J. Ackerman, from June 1958, from Humphrey Carpenter's book, in which JRRT basically runs the proposed animated film treatment through a blender.
We have Ralph Bakshi's 1978 animated plus version which lacks the second film to get from Helm's Deep to "Well, I'm back."
PJ's original pitch had been for two films, which drew the response from the studio trolls for a single film (the über-troll Harvey W., notorious in many other ways, deserves a life sentence just for this).
Then New Line Cinema did some preschooler arithmetic: "Lessee, there's three fat books ... hmmm ..."

Compared to stuff like that PJ is Michelangelo, Beethoven, etc.

And each film had something that I hadn't experienced in a cinema for ages - an intermission!

I can understand that from a film-only perspective, PJ's trilogy is rated by many at the top of the heap compared to any other film trilogy.

But to use the Ainulindalë as a metaphor, there are just too many Melkor moments.

May I steal borrow your "Melkor moments" metaphor?

 

[Olorgando]

May I steal borrow your "Melkor moments" metaphor?

Erm ... you'd probably have to contact the Tolkien Trust about the "Melkor" part ... 😬

 

[Deimos]

Erm ... you'd probably have to contact the Tolkien Trust about the "Melkor" part ... 😬

OK...

Edit: Just got an email from the Trust... they said it was OK.
Since they are good with it, it's OK with you, right?

 

[LaurelinBearsFruit]

Hah, Melkor moments. Again not going to argue with you on those, yet still best movie trilogy of all time. Just not if being compared to the books (which granted is difficult sometimes when those moments happen).

But think of the fact that they literally made thousands and thousands of pieces of real armor and weapons, each designed to do honor to the cultures they are supposed to represent. They built Edoras from the ground up, a feat that took months, just to be able to shoot there for like four days so that the actors could give the best performances possible (all the Rohan stuff is some of the best looking in the entire trilogy IMO). And all the practical effects work done with the orcs/goblins, the ents (Treebeard anyways), and the bigatures. I recognize that a lot of this is not directly related to PJ, but he didn't have to put the time and effort into getting all that talent sourced and put into the movies.

As @Aramarien said, his using Alan Lee and John Howe for the design work was a spectacular choice. Also, they literally started working on the Shire a full year before shooting to make sure all the gardens and smials looked truly lived in. In a world where most big-budget stuff is so formulaic now, the PJ trilogy definitely stands above the crowd in a lot of ways.

 

[Vorondil]

Hah, Melkor moments. Again not going to argue with you on those, yet still best movie trilogy of all time. Just not if being compared to the books (which granted is difficult sometimes when those moments happen).

But think of the fact that they literally made thousands and thousands of pieces of real armor and weapons, each designed to do honor to the cultures they are supposed to represent. They built Edoras from the ground up, a feat that took months, just to be able to shoot there for like four days so that the actors could give the best performances possible (all the Rohan stuff is some of the best looking in the entire trilogy IMO). And all the practical effects work done with the orcs/goblins, the ents (Treebeard anyways), and the bigatures. I recognize that a lot of this is not directly related to PJ, but he didn't have to put the time and effort into getting all that talent sourced and put into the movies.

As @Aramarien said, his using Alan Lee and John Howe for the design work was a spectacular choice. Also, they literally started working on the Shire a full year before shooting to make sure all the gardens and smials looked truly lived in. In a world where most big-budget stuff is so formulaic now, the PJ trilogy definitely stands above the crowd in a lot of ways.

Definitely agree with it being the best movie trilogy of all time. And I think its the best trilogy because of all the work they put into making it, lots of people say they don't like where it was changed (and I don't like it either), but how many people who say this have ever actually made a movie? Its kind of like giving advice to someone, about something that you don't really know anything about.