Éomer and Gimli

[aragil]

From the Lord of the Rings, the Riders of Rohan
The Rider looked at them with renewed wonder, but his eyes hardened. 'Then there is a Lady in the Golden Wood, as old tales tell!' he said. 'Few escape her nets, they say. These are strange days! But if you have her favour, then you also are net-weavers and sorcerers, maybe.' He turned a cold glance suddenly upon Legolas and Gimli. 'Why do you not speak, silent ones?' he demanded.
Gimli rose and planted his feet firmly apart: his hand gripped the handle of his axe, and his dark eyes flashed. 'Give me your name, horse-master, and I will give you mine, and more besides,' he said.
'As for that,' said the Rider, staring down at the Dwarf, 'the stranger should declare himself first. Yet I am named Éomer son of Éomund, and am called the Third Marshal of Riddermark.'
'Then Éomer son of Éomund, Third Marshal of Riddermark, let Gimli the Dwarf Glóin's son warn you against foolish words. You speak evil of that which is fair beyond the reach of your thought, and only little wit can excuse you.'
Éomer's eyes blazed, and the Men of Rohan murmured angrily, and closed in, advancing their spears. 'I would cut off your head, beard and all, Master Dwarf, if it stood but a little higher from the ground ' said Éomer.

I always thought that this was a rather abrupt and harsh conversation between these two, even given Gimli's love for Galadriel. I just found out that (as usual, actually) Tolkien gives us a reason for this elsewhere:

From Appendix A, the House of Eorl
'Many lords and warriors, and many fair and valiant women, are named in the songs of Rohan that still remember the North. Frumgar, they say, was the name of the chieftain who led his people to Éothéod. Of his son, Fram, they tell that he slew Scatha, the great dragon of Ered Mithrin, and the land had peace from the long-worms afterwards. Thus Fram won great wealth, but was at feud with the Dwarves, who claimed the hoard of Scatha. Fram would not yield them a penny, and sent to them instead the teeth of Scatha made into a necklace, saying: "Jewels such as these you will not match in your treasuries, for they are hard to come by." Some say that the Dwarves slew Fram for this insult. There was no great love between Éothéod and the Dwarves.

Gotta love Fram's style.

 

[Éomond]

So are you suggesting that's why Éomer and Gimli had fought, and they knew about Fram and the Dwarves and Scatha's hoard? Éomer might have know, but, do the Dwarfs write books?

 

[aragil]

The Dwarves have long memories about these sort of things. I'd guess that Scatha had taken their treasure long before, yet they still considered it theirs. Thorin was in exile for over 200 years, yet he never considered relinquishing his claim to Erebor. Look at how the insult to Thrain caused the Dwarf-Orc war. Or especially consider the emnity between Elves and Dwarves that still exists in the Third Age, mostly due to (it must be imagined) the sack of Doriath which occured over 6,000 years earlier! My assumption is that the Rohirrim inherited the animosity with Dwarves along with all the other peculiarities of Éothéod culture.

 

[HLGStrider]

A plague upon Dwarves and their stiff necks!

he he

 

[Brytta]

Gimli, Lord of the Glittering Caves in Rohan?

This passage from Appendix A has always puzzled me.

After the fall of Sauron, Gimli brought south a part of the Dwarf-folk of Erebor, and he became Lord of the Glittering Caves. He and his people did great works in Gondor and Rohan.

Given the history of the Éothéod (their descendants being the Éorlingas) and the Dwarves, how does Gimli become Lord of the Glittering Caves? Not only that but other Dwarves are said to have helped out on work in Rohan.

How would you explain this? Gimli convinces other Dwarves that Elves and the Men of Rohan are good sorts? Or Gimli loves the caves so much, that he would do anything in order to be able to visit (and work in) the caves?

 

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Gimli had a knack for befriending the people that most hated him...

Also remember Gimli saved Eomer's life at Helm's Deep.

 

[Melko Belcha]

Re: Gimli, Lord of the Glittering Caves in Rohan?

Originally posted by Brytta
This passage from Appendix A has always puzzled me.



Given the history of the Éothéod (their descendants being the Éorlingas) and the Dwarves, how does Gimli become Lord of the Glittering Caves? Not only that but other Dwarves are said to have helped out on work in Rohan.

How would you explain this? Gimli convinces other Dwarves that Elves and the Men of Rohan are good sorts? Or Gimli loves the caves so much, that he would do anything in order to be able to visit (and work in) the caves?

Sauron Defeated, HoME IX, has the original last chapter to LOTR and in it says that Gimli founded a realm for Dwarves on the west side of Mount Mindolluin, and went to the Glittering Caves once a year.

About the friendship between the Dwarves and the Rohirrim, like Dáin Ironfoot I said Gimli saved Eomer's life, and Gimli probably gained alot of respect for the Rohirrim after Helm's Deep, Pelennor Field's, and the Morannon. Take the conversation between Gimli and Eomer over Galadriel in ROTK.

"Gimli Gloin's son, have you your axe ready?"
"Nay lord," said Gimli, "but I can speedily fetch it, if there be need."
"You shall judge," said Eomer. "For there are certain rash words concerning the Lady of the Golden Wood that lie still between us. And now I have seen her with my own eyes."
"Well, lord," said Gimli, "and what say you now?"
"Alas!" said Eomer. "I will not say that she is the fairest lady that lives."
"Then I must go for my axe," said Gimli.
"But first I will plead this excuse," said Eomer. "Had I seen her in other company, I would have said all that you could wish. But now I will put Queen Arwen Evenstar first, and I am ready to do battle on my part with any who deny me. Shall I call for my sword?"
The Gimli bowed low. "Nay, you are excused for my part, lord," he said. "You have chosen the Evening; but my love is given to the Morning. And my heart forebodes that soon it will pass away for ever."

This is one of my favorite conversations.

A friendship had formed between the two. And the Dwarves of Erebor were used to living by Elves (Mirkwood), and Men (Dale). Plus any Dwarf who layed eyes on the Glittering Caves would probably do anything to get the chance to work in the caves, like Gimli spoke of in The Two Towers.

 

[Brytta]

Melko Belcha

And the Dwarves of Erebor were used to living by Elves (Mirkwood), and Men (Dale).

That's a good point. Times do change and the Dwarves of Erebor had quite a bit of experience with Men and Elves at the tale end of the Third Age. However, don't forget tht initially in The Hobbit that Thorin and crew initially chose to fight both Man and Elf before the coming of the orcs and the ensuing Battle of Five Armies.

As was earlier pointed out, Dwarves have long memory and an undying love of precious things (especially Dwarven-made). My feeling is that some formal peace-making would have to take place before Dwarves and the descendants of the Éothéod could become friends. Such an agreement might logically include an apology from the Éorlingas and the return of some of the hoard.

The Encyclopedia of Arda has this to say about it:

His recovered hoard was the subject of great dispute between the Men of the Éothéod and the Dwarves of that region, who claimed the hoard as their own. Fram rebuked their claim, and sent them the teeth of the dragon, with the words, "Jewels such as these you will not match in your treasuries, for they are hard to come by." Thereafter there was war between the Éothéod and the Dwarves, a war in which Fram met his end.

However this dispute was resolved (we are not told), it seems that Fram's people retained at least some of the hoard, and brought it south with them when they settled in Rohan. The horn that Éowyn gave to Merry Brandybuck after the War of the Ring (many hundred years later) was said to have come from it.

Here it is told that there was indeed war between the two sides, and, eventually a peace. I don't believe I've come across this reference. Does anyone know were it can be found?

 

[Melko Belcha]

Brytta look in the LOTR Appendix A The House of Eorl, and aragil's 2nd quote on the 1st post.

 

[Brytta]

Brytta look in the LOTR Appendix A The House of Eorl, and aragil's 2nd quote on the 1st pos

Sure, it speaks of the fighting, but not the peace-making. That's what I'm missing and I believe it's the important part!

 

[Melko Belcha]

However this dispute was resolved (we are not told), it seems that Fram's people retained at least some of the hoard, and brought it south with them when they settled in Rohan. The horn that Éowyn gave to Merry Brandybuck after the War of the Ring (many hundred years later) was said to have come from it.

I just noticed it said (we are not told), so it must just be there opinion. I don't ever recall reading anything about it.