• Welcome to The Tolkien Forum! Connect with fellow Tolkien enthusiasts and join a community that is over two decades old, and still going strong. We look forward to meeting you.  Register

The Elfstone of Aragorn: An in-depth examination

Hobbits! ?
All right, then...

here is sth. to start the project of the Study Team.
It is a joint research done by Walter and me some time ago. I did some research on Hobbits and added it to what Walter had already found and arranged in a page.

And Eol and Samjor, boys, THANK YOU for being around so actively supporting the activities in the Guild! :)
Now this Hobbit-thing seems to be a large double-sided project! Marvellous! :D
 
An Overview of Hobbits

Hobbits are a very old race, and they love peace and quiet. They do not like machines or humans, and can easily escape one of us if we are near. Hobbits tend to be fat, and are usually between two and four feet tall. Hobbits dress in bright colors and rarely wear shoes because of the thick skin on the bottoms of their feet. Their feet are covered in a furlike hair, usually brown. They are a merry people, often found eating and drinking (up to 6 meals a day) or giving away presents. They live in the Shire, which occupies 40 leagues between the Far Downs and the Brandywine Bridge and 50 leagues from the northern moors to the south marshes. Hobbits were never warlike, and few battles were ever fought by their kind. However, most Hobbits, even in the late 3rd Age could still handle a bow. Hobbits lived in holes on the ground, called smials, which could be very decadent, or very primitive. Hobbits possessed a very curious weed known as pipeweed. It is smoked in a pipe, and was also used by the Dunedain. However, it was the Hobbits who first thought to put it in pipes, probably around 1070 S.R. The best weeds are agreed to be Old Toby, Longbottom Leaf and Southern Star. Hobbits entered very infrequently into the great tales, in this Frodo and Bilbo are remarkable. Certain families, like the Tooks, had an adventurous side to them, this is what is believed to have started the Quest to Erebor.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I would like to add sth. more to this wonderful overview - sth. that has always amused me very much - the mathom.

********
Anything that Hobbits had no immediate use for, but were unwilling to throw away, they called a mathom.

Hobbits were obviously not fond of having too many things piled in their houses...or holes, if you wish, and preferred to get rid of the useless in the most appropriate way, especially when their dwellings were "apt to become rather crowded with mathoms". However, a Hobbit seems to be not willing to just easily throw away something, simply for the reason that he needed it not. This is why they "invented" the gifts giving - on a certain occasion they gave presents to other Hobbits, picking them up from their mathoms. The problem, however, was that in the rather closed community of he Hobbits of the Shire those "presents" simply passed from hand to hand. So, imagine you being a Hobbit - you give away a present=mathom but receive soon enough another one in return and the pile of them in your dwelling never vanishes. Besides, the opportunity of getting back the "present" you once gave to someone else is 100% sure!

I therefore think that this could be the reason why the Hobbits, practical as they were, established the Mathom-house - a "museum" they used to call it for storing there mostly trophies, such as weapons from old and forgotten days and lots of other stuff too. In fact, that seems to be the right place to store mathoms!
*********

Another small addition, though I will not quote - about the Hobbits' dwellings.
Normally the Hobbits preferred to live in holes in the ground.
But in the already established and developed community of the Shire, only the poorest and the most well-to-do Hobbits preserved this tradition. The poor lived in modest holes often with only one small window, while the "rich" Hobbits (like the Baggins) had large underhill halls (corridors in fact) with lots of rooms and quite "de-luxe" setting. But on the other hand, there were a lot of Hobbit-families, who have followed the example of the "big folk" and have constructed houses of brick above the ground.
********
I'd love to see some research too about the economy and the community arrangement in the Shire and Bree.
Who'll be in charge?
 
Yeah and I'd like to add some more familytrees I found:

For the Hobbits' different races, just click on the left on the different races:
http://www.annalsofarda.dk/annals-of-arda/Hobbit-index-tables/Hobbit.htm

I'm now working on my part of the study.
-----------------------
As for suggestions, Lhun, here's one:
Why don't we make a research called: 'Source of Inspiration' ?
Now, the idea will be to trace and compare Tolkien's personal life with the views, characters and ...things he creates in his works. For example, we can compare the ents and the big 'alive' trees in the forest of Tom Bambadil to one of his favourite trees Pinus Nigra in the Botanic Gardens in Oxford.
And that's it:
-Plants and flowers:
...........Ents
-Animals:
...........Balrogs
-Races:
...........Elves
-Realms:
...........Lotlorien
-Spots:
...........Rivers, valleys,etc.

This is a kind of shcedule and some examples to make things clear. We can devide the work in 5 parts( as written above) and give this work to 5 different members to make the research.
Just an idea.:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Menegroth (The Thousand Caves)

Menegroth was delwed by the Dwarves of Belegost for King Thingol and Melian the Maia, early in the third age of the captivity of Melkor. It was situated in the Forest of Region in northern Beleriand, on the southern banks of the River Esgalduin.
It is uncertain whether the caves were hewn from the solid rock of the hill on the south bank, or whethet there already existed passages that were simply widened. It is assumed that these were not large natural caverns but were primarily hand-cut. There are two main reasons for this assumption:
a): It would take the correct type of bedrock to develop an already preexisting cavern system as ws the case with Nargothrond, but Menegroth was far north of Andram.
b): The Dwarves had the skill to accomplish this, as can be seen in Khazad-dûm.

The gates to Menegroth could only be reached by crossing the Esgalduin by a stone-bridge. This implies that the stone-hill must have run to the edge of the Esgalduin..
Near the gates stood a great beech tree whose roots roofed the thronehall: Hírilorn. In this tree a house was buildt to prevent Lúthien from escaping to help Beren with the Quest for the Silmaril.
Little specific is given on the exact organization of rooms and halls. It may however be assumed that they were delwed at several levels. Only three specific locations are ever mentioned:
1): The Great Hall of Thingol, where Beren came before the throne.
2): The deep smithies where Thingol was slain by the Naugrim.
3): The guarded treasury, where Mablung fell when the Dwarves returned to take the Nauglamír.

There were two battles within the caves of Menegroth, and both battles were attempts to take the Nauglamír with its Silmaril.
The first battle took place around 505 (F.A.), when the Dwarves returned to avenge the deaths of their kin who fell when Thingol was slain. They succeeded in stealing the necklace, but Beren later regained it.
The second battle took place some four years later (509 F.A.) when the Seven Sons of Fëanor, still holding to the accursed oath, initiated the Second Kinslaying when they fought and killed Dior. But Elwing fled from Menegroth with the remaining Elves, and with her went the Silmaril.


Sources:
Karen Wynn-Fonstad: The Atlas of Tolkien's Middle-earth.
Encyclopedia of Arda
The TolkienWiki
JRR Tolkien: The Silmarillion
 
Nargothrond (Halls of (the River) Narog

In a dream Ulmo came to Turgon and Finrod, and he spoke to them and advised that each should build a hidden fortress.
Shortly after, Finrod visited Thingol and got inspired by the design of Menegroth. He learned of the caverns of Narog and initiated the construction of his stronghold there beneath Taur-en-Faroth in west Beleriand on the western borders of Doriath. This was south and west of the confluence of the Ringwil and Narog where those rivers cut through the Andram.
The Long Wall was made from what was evidently soluble rock, possibly limestone. the cavernswere found and widened by the Petty-Dwarves before the return of the Noldor, and was shaped to fit Finrod's search for a stronghold where he and his followers could lay hidden in secrecy, hidden from Morgoth.
Finrod employed Dwarves from the Blue Mountains to continue the work. So great was the task that the dwarves named Finrod "Felagund" which means Hewer of Caves. It was founded c. F.A. 100.

Nargothrond concisted of a complex system of caves that were sufficiently extensive to completely hide a large population, and several of the hallways were large enough to allow the passaga of a Dragon.
Of the organization of Nargothrond, we know that its halls included the following:
- Several rooms used as armouries.
- A series of great halls where Finrod, celegorm, and Curufin adressed the inhabitants.
- A small deep chamber in which Lúthien was placed.
- A secret exit through which she escaped (with Huan the Hound).
- A great inner hall where Glaurung made his golden bed.

Originally the only access to Nargothrond meant fording the river some twenty-five miles to the north, and then continue along a narrow path alongside the river south to Nargothrond's three-door entrance. this suited well Finrod's policy of staying hidden.
When Túrin came to Nargothrond (c. F.A. )487, he persuaded Orodreth, brother of Finrod and his successor after he fell in the Quest for the Silmaril, to abandon their policy of secrecy and from Nargothrond was sent raiding-parties to openly attack the servants of Morgoth. A bridge was then buildt across the Narog so that the Elves could venture to and forth from Nargothrond more easily.
Through the attacks on his servants, Morgoth at last discovered the location of Nargothrond and in F.A. 495, an army led by Glaurung sacked and destroyed it, killing or imprisoning all of its inhabitants. The bridge then proved to be a great help for Morgoth, as it could not be lifted to prevent the passage of Glaurung, who than came unhindered to the Three Doors of Nargothrond.


Sources:
Karen Wynn-Fonstad: The Atlas of Tolkien's Middle-earth
JRR Tolkien: The Silmarillion
Encyclopedia of Arda.
 
Alright, here's the stuff for Fornost:

Fornost means "northern fortress." Its full name, "Fornost Ethrain," means "Norbury of Kings." (Norbury would apparently mean "Northern fortress” as well). It was the seat of the kings of Arthedain, and its capital, after Annuminas was abandoned. Arnor did not have a crown, but the King at Fornost wore the "Elendilmir," a gem that was apparently set on the head. After the War of the Last Alliance, Isildur took the Elendilmir and proclaimed himself king of Arnor. Oddly, this would have to have happened before he actually reached Fornost, as he was ambushed and killed on the way.

The first king of Arthedain at Fornost was Amlaith. Under his heir Beleg, the halflings crossed into Eriador from over the Hithaeglir, though this was not thought particularly important at the time. Much later, Sauron had sent the Witchking north to assault Arnor (this was during the reign of Arvedui). Sweeping west, he overran all of Arnor (which was divided into three parts then), and captured Fornost in III 1975. Eärnur, then the king of Gondor, sailed North to Mithlond. Receiving aid from the elves there and an army of Dunedain under Arvedui’s son Aranarth (Chieftain of the Dunedain), he marched west. After meeting up with a force from Rivendell lead by Glorfindel, he assaulted the Witch King. The Battle did not actually take place in Fornost, but rather westward on the plains of Lake Evendim. Angmar was sent into a rout, and he fled westward, then back south to Mordor.

Though it is unclear exactly when Fornost was abandoned, after the city was taken under King Arvedui by Angmar, neither Fornost nor the Kingdom of Arthedain was rebuilt, even after the defeat of the Witch-King.

More later.

~Helcaraxë
 
Gondolin (The Hidden Rock)

In a dream Ulmo came to Turgon and Finrod, and he spoke to them and advised that each should build a hidden fortress.
Turgon sought long for a place to build his fortress, but with the aid of Ulmo, he came by secret ways to the Hidden Vale of Tumladen. It was a round valley within the Encircling Mountains, the Crissaegrim. It had originally been a lake, and in its centre stood a mountain that had originally been an island, Amon Gwareth, reaching 400 feet above the Vale.
When Turgon saw it, he knew that he had found the place of his desire, and he resolved to build there a fair city, a memorial of Tirion upon Túna.
After the Dagor Aglareb, Turgon started the work that would take fifty-two years to finish: the building of Gondolin. Turgon appointed its name to be Ondolindë in the speech of the Elves of Valinor: The Rock of the Music of Water, for there were fountains upon the hill. The name was changed in Sindarin to Gondolin: The Hidden Rock. Turgon's people moved there from Nevrast in c F.A. 126.

In the vale of Tumladen, behind the circle of the mountains the people of Turgon lived concealed from friend and foe alike. The power of Ulmo that ran in Sirion protected the entrance, and in the mountains the Eagles of Thorondor maintained a steady vigilance.
The Gondolindrim grew and throve, and they put forth their skill in labour unceasing, so that Gondolin upon Amon Gwareth became indeed fair and fit to compare even with Tirion beyond the Sea. High and white were its walls, and smooth its stairs, and tall and strong was the Tower of the King, the centre of the City, reaching another 400 feet into the air, surrounded by the King's Square. There stood images of the Trees of old, wrought by Turgon himself. Glingal he made of gold, and the flowers of Belthil was made from silver. Shining fountains surrounded the Trees.
The city could only be entered from two points: the Main Gate in the west, and the North Gate. From the Main Gate, the King's Way went straight east, passing the King's Square after some 1500 feet and continuing on to the Great Market in the East.
The King's Square was approximately 450 x 450 feet large. In the eastern part was the Palace.
On the north side of the hill of Gondolin was the Caragdûr, a precipice of black rock. This is where Eöl was cast down after murdering Aredhel, Turgon's sister, and his own wife, mother of their son Maeglin.


The city was inviolate for almost four hundred years; Turgon did not break his secret leaguer until the time of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad in FA 471, and even after that disastrous battle he was able to return in secret to the city with the aid of Húrin and Huor. He then decided that the Gondolindrim should never come forth to war again, at least not alongside the Sons of Fëanor.



Even when Tuor brought a warning from Ulmo, telling that the Curse of Mandos hastened to its fulfillment, when all the works of the Noldor should perish, and that Turgon and his folk should depart the fair city and abandon it and go down Sirion to the Sea, Turgon did not heed the warning, but trusted still in the secret and impregnetable strength of his own design.



But Idril, Turgon's daughter,
was wise and far-seeing, and foreboding crept upon her spirit as a cloud. She let prepare a secret way, that should let down from the city and passing out beneath the surface of the plain issue far beyond the walls, northward of Amon Gwareth; and she contrived it that the work was known but to few.


Morgoth's servants finally discovered Gondolin through the treachery of Maeglin, and in FA 510, Morgoth
loosed upon Gondolin his Balrogs, and his Orcs, and hos wolves; and with them came dragons of the brood of Glaurung, and they were become now many and terrible. The host of Morgoth came over the northern hills where the height was greatest and the watch least vigilant, and it came at night upon a time of festival, when all the people of Gondolin were upon the walls to await the raising sun.


Turgon was lost in the Fall of the city, but some few (including Tuor and Idril, with their child Eärendil) escaped the destruction and came at last to the Mouths of Sirion.





Sources: Karen Wynn-Fonstad: The Atlas of Tolkien's Middle-earth
JRR Tolkien: The Silmarillion
JRR Tolkien: Unfinished Tales
Encyclopedia of Arda.
 
Khazad-dum

We never get to see Khazad-dum in its heyday. By the time Tolkien brings the reader to the great mansions of the ancient Dwarves, the halls are empty, except for Orcs. Gimli's deep voice must have echoed through the empty tunnels and chambers as he sang for his companions an old Dwarven folk-song:

The world was young, the mountains green,
No stain yet on the Moon was seen,
No words were laid on stream or stone,
When Durin woke and walked alone.
He named the nameless hills and dells;
He drank from yet untasted wells;
He stooped and looked in Mirrormere,
And saw a crown of stars appear,
As gems upon a silver thread,
Above the shadow of his head.


How long ago was this episode? How old was Durin before he found a wife (as he plainly must have, since he originally walked alone)? How long was it before he found the Mirrormere and the entrance to the mighty caverns that he made his home?

We can infer a few points about ancient Dwarven history from what is told of their dealings with the Elves. For instance, we know that the Dwarves first entered Beleriand during the second age of Melkor's captivity in Valinor. According to THE WAR OF THE JEWELS, this was Year of the Trees 1250, which was 200 years after the awakening of the Elves (a period equal in length to about 1900 Years of the Sun).

The Dwarven cities of Nogrod and Belegost, the two cities in the Ered Luin, were not founded by Dwarves of Durin's Line, but instead were the homes of other Dwarves. They were most likely the ancestral homes of the Firebeards and the Broadbeams, the two kindreds of the Dwarves who awoke in the northern Ered Luin.

Khazad-dum engaged in trade with Nogrod and Belegost. Tales of Khazad-dum reached Beleriand, though it is only briefly mentioned in THE SILMARILLION as being the greatest of Dwarven cities. The ancient Dwarf-road that passed through the forest of Greenwood (later
Mirkwood) and through Eriador apparently carried traffic from Khazad-dum to other Dwarven cities in the east.

And yet Khazad-dum was far to the south of the High Pass where the ancient road crossed the mountains. This seems a little strange. One can only imagine the Dwarves had built a road north along the foot-hills of the Misty Mountains to reach the high pass. Or perhaps they followed the
Silverlode down to Anduin and crossed the river by raft or boat. And wondering this, one cannot fail to ask whether Durin's folk were friendly with the Nandorin Elves who lived in the Vales of Anduin.

We know something of the life the Dwarves led in the First Age. They were, of course, miners and stone-masons of exquisite and almost unrivaled skill. They smelted metals such as gold, silver, iron, and probably copper and tin. They worked with crystal, unearthed gems of many types, and even learned to make instruments such as trumpets and harps.

The city itself conducted trade mostly with the east. There was no West-gate until around the year 750 of the Second Age. Dwarven merchants must also have trekked into the distant north. The road passing through the forest ran to the Celduin and probably crossed the river by a bridge just as it crossed Anduin by a bridge. From the crossing point on Celduin the road turned northeast and ran toward the Emyn Engrin, and from there ran eastwards to the other Dwarven realms of the Ironfists, Stiffbeards, Blacklocks, and Stonefoots.

THE PEOPLES OF MIDDLE-EARTH tells us that Dwarves did indeed live well to the east of Celduin, and that there was a city or gathering place for all the Dwarves at Mount Gundabad, where they held enclaves. The lands of Durin's folk were selected for this honor because he was the eldest of the Dwarves and Gundabad was the place where he awoke.

How numerous could Durin's folk have been in the First Age? We can only guess. But the time from the awakening of the Elves in Cuiviënen to the end of the First Age of the Sun was equivalent to approximately 4900 Years of the Sun. Yet there was no mention of the Elves encountering the Dwarves during the Great Journey. On the other hand, the Noegyth Nibin (the Petty-Dwarves) claimed to have settled in Beleriand before the Elves arrived.

The Dwarves must have awoken soon after the Elves did, but their numbers were few and increased only slowly. When they made contact with Durin some members of each tribe joined him in Khazad-dum. As the years passed a few outcasts wandered west into Beleriand. The Vanyar and Noldor entered Beleriand in Year of the Trees 1115, about 622 Years of the Sun after the awakening of the Elves. The Teleri arrived in Year of the Trees 1128, or about 124 Years of the Sun after the Vanyar and Noldor.

The Noegyth Nibin could have entered Beleriand before the Vanyar and Noldor. But they could also have entered after them and before the Sindar. Nonetheless, it is clear there had to be Dwarves in Beleriand by Year of the Trees 1128, about 747 Years of the Sun after the awakening of the Elves. If the Dwarves awoke within 10 Years of the Trees after the Elves, they would have had the equivalent of a few centuries in Years of the Sun in which to find each other and to cast out the Noegyth Nibin.

Since Nogrod and Belegost were not founded until Year of the Trees 1250 (almost 2,000 Years of the Sun after the awakening of the Elves), it seems evident the Firebeards and Broadbeams must all have wandered east soon after they awoke. Perhaps all the Dwarves came together in
Khazad-dum with Durin first, and there built the first Dwarven city. When their numbers became large enough, the six "younger" kings (descendants of the original fathers) could have led their peoples away from Khazad-dum to establish new ancestral homes for their peoples. This could explain why the Eldar encountered no Dwarves on their journey. The only Dwarves who would have left Khazad-dum by this time would have been the Noegyth Nibin.

So, what does this get us? Room to estimate a maximum probable population for Khazad-dum at the end of the First Age of the Sun (some 3900 Years of the Sun after Durin might have awoken). This would allow 45 - 48 generations for the Dwarves of Durin's Line to increase their numbers. By the time the Second Age started, there could have been upwards of 100,000
Dwarves living in Khazad-dum and more than 120,000 in most of each of the other Dwarven cities (not including Nogrod and Belegost, which had by then suffered grievous losses in the wars with Morgoth and the Elves).

Early in the Second Age Durin's folk were joined by most if not all of the Dwarves of Belegost, and many of the Dwarves of Nogrod. The population of Khazad-dum could have swelled to 500,000 or more by the end of the Second Age (but this estimate presupposes some changes in Dwarven birth rates -- signaling the onset of the decline of the Dwarven race).

Population estimates aside, we know that Khazad-dum grew slowly through the long centuries. The Dwarves added hall after hall and gradually extended their mines northward, especially after the discovery of Mithril sometime in the 7th or 8th centuries of the Second Age. The west-gate was built during this time, after the Noldor of Eregion established their great friendship with the Dwarves of Khazad-dum (who undoubtedly were influenced by tales of the friendship between the Noldor and the Dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost).

Tolkien wrote that Durin was reborn in his descendants six times. We know that Durin III was King of Khazad-dum when the Rings of Power were made, and he led an army against Sauron in the War of the Elves and Sauron. So it must have been Durin II who was king when Narvi and Celebrimbor built the west-gate. The king at the end of the Second Age may have been Durin IV.
He marched with the Host of the Last Alliance of Elves and Men.

Khazad-dum continued to flourish in the Third Age even though the Eldar were in decline. The west-gate may have been re-opened to allow trade with Arnor and, later, the peoples of Dunland. When the realm of Angmar arose in the distant north and Amroth of Lorien sent armies over the mountains to help the Dunedain, it may be the Dwarves gave aid to the Elves, or even permitted Amroth's warriors to pass through Khazad-dum.
 
But in time the Dwarves awoke a Balrog with their tunneling. It must have tried to drive them away at first, for they spent a year fighting it. Two Dwarven kings of Durin's Line perished before the city was abandoned in Third Age 1981. How many battles did the Dwarves fight with the Balrog and, perhaps, other creatures they found in the subterranean depths? Durin VI was slain in 1980 and his son Nain I was killed the next year, the Year of Flight. The Dwarves were destroyed or driven off and their ancient mansions were left deserted but for the Balrog and other creatures which Gandalf described as "nameless things" which even Sauron didn't know, for "they are older than he."

The Balrog assumed control of Khazad-dum, but some 500 or 600 years later Sauron sent Orcs and Trolls to inhabit the city, possibly with the Balrog's consent. From that time forward Khazad-dum was a stronghold and haven for the Orcs and it was known only by its ancient Elvish name, Moria, "Black Pit". The Orcish army of Moria was destroyed at the Battle of Nanduhirion in 2799, but the Dwarves lacked the numbers after their 7-year war with the Orcs to
retake the city (and probably could not have done so had their entire army attacked Moria in the first place).

The breeding Orcs were left behind and Moria's evil creatures recovered their numbers slowly, but they may not have ever again equaled the great numbers that the Dwarves encountered in 2799. Many of the Orcs of the Misty Mountains perished 142 years later at the Battle of Five Armies, and when Balin's colony was established in 2989 (a mere 47 years later) there were few Orcs left to guard the citadel. They must have retreated to deeper caverns until the Balrog drove them to attack the Dwarves, perhaps with reinforcements from other Orcish strongholds.

From 2994 to 3018 Khazad-dum was undisturbed until Gollum entered the fortress to escape Sauron's spies and the Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien. The Orcs either let him be or did not know he was there. But they were soon after roused by the Company of the Ring. The Balrog must have sensed the One Ring when it came into the eastern halls, if not sooner. The Orcs pursued the Company into Lorien but were destroyed or driven off, and Gandalf was able to defeat the Balrog in a single combat that lasted 11 days. In the course of the battle part of the mountain and Khazad-dum were destroyed.

Sometime in the Fourth Age (probably by the year 200) the Dwarves of Durin's Line returned to Khazad-dum, most likely to spend the last of their generations there. Durin VII was the last king to bear that name and perhaps the last of his proud and ancient Line. Or perhaps not. In THE PEOPLES OF MIDDLE-EARTH Christopher Tolkien points out that the life of Durin VII is poorly documented, but that he apparently had descendants.

Source : Parma Endorion by Michael Martinez
 
Well,finally I decided to post a small part from my thoughts about The Dwellings of the Valar.I chose to begin with Makar and Measse,because they are really interesting to me,and what is more I have some questions about them.

Makar and Measse didn't survive in later Tolkien's world.That has always questioned me.From the description of Makar and Measse we can conclude that they were typical barberian gods.Very close to those in the Scandinavian mythology.But we can say the same thing about the other gods like Yavanna,Tulkas,Manwe.I have always asked myself,why Makar and Measse were "dropped'?What made Tolkien do it?His wish to be closer to the Bible?

Makar and Measse were really fierce gods.They lived not far from Mandos-"Upon the confines of the Outer lands..." and "a grim hall it was".It was a place built by Measse and his brother.So fierce it was that none of the Gods visited them.Their halls were populated by their vassals,dressed in armour,and Measse often fared among them and egged them to more blows.Only Tulkas visited them from time to time and wrestled there with Makar "or dealed sledge-blows among the fighters."

Their
"house was full of weapons of baattle in great array,and shields of great size and brightness of polish were on the walls.It was lit with torches,and fierce songs of victory,of sack and harrying,were there sung and the torches' red light was reflected in the blades of naked swords.There sit often Makar and his sister listening to the songs,and Makar has a huge bill across his knees and Measse holds a spear."


The description is not much,but enough to show us how fierce were Makar and Measse.It is interestig to me how such characters were invented by Tolkien.Such characters would have been placed together with Melkor if I had had the chance to write these books.For me Makar and Measse were part of Tolkien's earlier plan to create English mythology,a plan closer to the Scandinavian and Celtic myths.But later they were just forgotten,I can explain this only with the similarities with the Bible which were included.Such characters didn't have place in a myth so close to the Bible's ideas.

to be continued.....with some of the other Valar
 
I just finished my exams and I decided to post some thoughts about The Halls of Manwe,just a short description from BOLT 1 and some thoughts(pretty simple) about the passage.


THE HALLS OF MANWE


As everyone could expect the Halls of Manwe were probably the biggest and the most impressive ones.

First upon Taniqeutil was a great abode raised up for Manwe and a watchover set.Thence did he speed his darting hawks and receive them on his return,and thither fared often in later days Sorontir King of Eagles....

Tolkien "gave" Manwe the highest place by purpose.As the Lord of the Gods Manwe was supposed to sit higher than all of them.This element can be found in most mythologies.The most powerflul,the strongerst God/Goddess was always at higher place than the others.

Manwe´s halls were in accordance with his function as Lord of Winds and Air.

That house was builded of marbles white and blue and stood amid the fields of snow,and its roofs were made of a web that blue air called ilwe that is above the white and grey.

The other gods helped Manwe and participated in the building of his Halls.Maybe that was their way to show their respect and they did they´re best for their Lord.

This web did Aule and his wife contrive,but Varda spangled it with stars,and Manwe dwelt thereunder;but in a the plain in the full radiance of trees was a cluster of dwelligs built like a fair and smiling town,anf that town was named Valmar.

If Valinor had a capital Valmar was that place.I suppose that once again everything was done on purpose.As the Lord of the Valar Manwe was supposed to hold his councils at his place,in his halls.That is why they had to be enourmous enough to for the gathering of all Valar.In the early story(in BOLT 1)Tolkien mentions several times The Valar´s folk.The story was changed but maybe Valmar stayed.I believe that we could say that Valmar was supposed to be a place for all those servants and vassals of the Valar who acompanied their masters.Later Valmar become a place for the Firstborn.

No metal and no stone,nor any wood of mighty trees was spared to their raising.Their roofs were of gold and their floors silver and their doors of polished bronze;they were lifted with spells and their stones were bound with magic.

Well,everything had to be different than the other Valar´s halls,to be from better quality.That is why no 'ordinary' materials were used.Everything was made to put a stress on the might of Manwe,on his privillige status as the Lord of The Valar.
Some would say that this description is close in some parts to the Eastearn mythologies and conception about the possesion of power.In the eastearn cultures the one who was the leader had to be totally different from the others.According to the believes he had to be a GOD.That is why it was done everything possible by him and his servants for the keeping of his GOD status.Enormous buildings like no others were built and etc.(Pharaons,Sultans even Khans are just fine example for such persons,who were thought to have the status of Gods,of person who tried to keep,their reign depended on keeping their status of Gods.)

In a few words I would say that the Halls of Manwe were built in such a way that they showed only one thing-the might and the strenght of the Lord of The Valar.


hmhmhm I definitely have to turn in,I am too tired to do or write anything else.

:eek:
 
Originally posted by Rog and moved here from the project - thread!

THE GREAT HALLS OF THE KHAZÂD

Gabilgathol

Other names:
-Gabilgathol (Khuzdûl)
-Belegost (Sindarin)
-Mickleburg (Westron)


Gabilgathol was founded by the Broadbeam Dwarves shortly after the birth of the Elves during the Years of the Trees. Named 'Great Fortress' by the Elves, it was situated in the Ered Luin, north-east of Mount Dolmed, and stood until the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age.
As the Broadbeams assited in the construction of the great halls of Nargothrond and Menegroth, it can be presumed that they were fashioned on the design of the great halls of Gabilgathol.


Tumunzahar

Other names:
-Tumumzahar (Khuzdûl)
-Nogrod (Sindarin)
-Hollowbold (Westron)


Tumunzahar (or 'Hollow Building') was situated to the south-east of Mount Dolmed, dug into the slopes of Ered Luin. It was populated by the Firebeard clan of Dwarves, having being founded at a similar time as Gabilgathol.
Like Gabilgathol, very little is told of the design of Tumunzahar, but it is known that great feasts were held within it's great walls (Eöl the Dark Elf attended one in the year 345 of the First Age).
Tumunzahar was crushed in the turbulance of the War of Wrath, but it's peoples mananged to escape, and travel to the halls of Dwarrowdelf.

References
-Tolkien, JRR. (1999). The Published Silmarillion, Harper Collins Publishers, London (pp. 99-101, 130, 155).
-Tolkien, JRR., Tolkien, C. (2002). History of Middle Earth Part Three: Volume XII - The Peoples of Middle Earth, Harper Collins Publishers, London (pp. 322).
-The Encyclopedia of Arda [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm], Feburary 4th, 2004.
 
Eöl said:
Narsil was originally forged for Elendil, by Telchar the Dwarf.
The piece on Narsil is quite thorough, and very well done.


I have one quibble. It isn't possible that Telchar of Nogrod forged Narsil for Elendil the Tall. Telchar forged the knife Angrist that Beren used to cut the Silmaril from Morgoth's crown. He must have lived (and likely died) during the First Age, and could not have known Elendil, who was born toward the end of the Second Age.

Anamatar IV posted a very fine note in this thread that Thingol had acquired weapons and armor forged by Telchar. Thingol did a lot of trading with the dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost, who helped him construct Menegroth. Narsil could have been part of Thingol’s armory. (That might be implied in the passage Anamatar IV cites.) Beren and Lúthien, however, took Angrist from Curufin son of Fëanor.

I don’t believe how Elendil obtained Narsil has been published in Tolkien’s works, but perhaps Narsil was part of a dowry for Silmariën from her father Tar-Elendil, fourth King of Númenor. The Kings of Númenor wore Thingol’s sword Aranrúth, and Narsil would have been a fitting inheritance for Silmariën’s son Valandil, the first Lord of Andúnië. Elendil the Tall’s father Amandil was the last Lord of Andúnië, and that might well be how he obtained the sword.

 

Today's events

Similar threads

Back
Top