Ancalagon vs. Glaurung

[YayGollum]

Mightiest of the dragon-host at the time, crazy person. Glaurung wasn't around. Even though Glaurung was the first dragon around, I'm thinking that when they say he's the father of them, he's also the biggest and the baddest and the scariest and the evillest. oh well. It's not like there's any way we can prove it either way. *hides*

 

[Elendil3119]

I know crazy Yay person! My point is, was Glaurung ever mentioned in that way?

 

[YayGollum]

No, I don't remember ever seeing any little quote that says that Glaurung was the mightiest of some other dragon-host. So sorry. Oh, now I see why Ancalagon must be the mightiest dragon of all time! All because there's not a quote that says that Glaurung was the mightiest of some other dragon-host!

 

[Beleg]

I personally think it is Glaurung.

 

[Inderjit S]

Elendil I think that the title 'father of Dragons' is pretty self-explanatory in explaining that Glaurung was the most powerful of the host he was in. Also, he led the charge, for Bragollach so that is somewhat a indication of him being the mightiest of the host of Morgoth prior Nirnaeth etc. His brood also left the Nirnaeth when he was injured by Azaghal signifying he was what his brood relied on. But I think Ancalagon’s ability to fly gives him the edge. also Ancalagon is mentioned in the Dagorath as being the mightiest Dragon ever and that he would be slain by Turin. (As opposed to hi slaying of Morgoth) but I cannot find the passage and it isn't in the Second Prophecy since that says he slays Morgoth, though I fancy Andreth said it in the Athrabeth.

 

[Mormegil]

I am of the opinion that Glaurung was the greater Dragon.
I'm pretty sure he was huge, didn't he rest his head on a hill or something? So therefore much larger than Ancalagon.
And wings don't neccessarily give Ancalagon an advantage, he would still have to swoop or land to attack Glaurung.
Their weaponry and armour must be pretty similar, but I would go with Glaurung because of his spellcasting abilities.

 

[YayGollum]

Woah! Yikes! I'd love to see the quote that Inderjit S person is talking about. Too scary. oh well. Anyways, sure, even though something does say that Glaurung's head was about as big as some unmeasured hill, I haven't heard how big Ancalagon was. oh well. Yes, I don't get how wings are that huge of an advantage, either. Tossing fire at each other isn't going to work.

 

[Inderjit S]

Ancalagon, when he was slain by Earendil landed upon and destroyed Thangordrim-doesn't that show a figure of some size.

 

[Gil-Galad]

Originally posted by ithrynluin
Ancalagon was pitted against the mightiest of foes.

I would say that Glaurung was pitted against the smartness of Turin.He died in an awful way that no a dragon deserves.He just didn't have a chance,just like Anc.

 

[YayGollum]

Sure, I don't doubt that Ancalagon was supposed to be pretty big. Too bad we don't have any real measurements for either of these people. oh well. I happen to think that Amon Rudh was bigger than Bag End. Too bad we don't know how big the hill was they were talking about in that Glaurung quote. oh well.

 

[Gil-Galad]

Originally posted by YayGollum
Sure, I don't doubt that Ancalagon was supposed to be pretty big. Too bad we don't have any real measurements for either of these people.

People?I thought they were big nasty dragons?!

 

[YayGollum]

In a sing-songy and patient parent telling some slow kid what's what type voice ---> Dragons are people, too, you know.

 

[Link]

It's funny, the people defending Glaurung, who think he is better, just say stuff like " Well I BET Glaurung could win, cause he's older and uh, has better armour and stuff." Completely random and made-up stuff.



While the people defending Ancalagon are giving exact details and quotes about how mighty he is.




I'm sorry, but when Glaurung dies, there is only one thing broken, the spell on Hurin's family. But when Ancalagon dies, the big baddest most impregnable mountains ever to be seen on earth are completely laid to waste.


In conclusion, Ancalagon was definately bigger because of the reasons above.

 

[Ulmo321]

Ancalagon (and his other winged dragon friends) did push back entire hosts of Valinor. That is no small feat.

 

[Glomund]

Here are some mistakes I have seen in the thread, and I would like to clear them up before I throw my opinion of the winner out there. The quote when Ancalagon was thrown down says he broke the towers of Thangordrim, not the mountains, so his size needs to be curtailed a bit. And Luthien in her spell of growth(in the lays of Beleriand) uses Glaurungs name, as being the biggest dragon. It could be argued that Anc.. was not known or alive at the time, but she does use the name of the chain that was to bind Melkor after the last battle,and so did not yet exist, I know from HoME that the final name of the chain was not set in stone, and it could have been the same chain that had bound him before. so the possibility exists she knew Glau.. was the biggest. The argument on Glaurungs spell ability is assuming Ancalagon did not have it. I do not think we can make that assumption, as Smaug had some powers like Glaurungs, he almost got Bilbo to fall under the "Dragon Spell". If Anc.. did have magic, then I would assume that they would each have been immune to the others magic. After all this, I must say I think Anc.. would win, he could fly, and so, if both dragons were fire drakes, and could not breath on each other, he could at least drop huge boulders and other objects on G, before closing for claw to claw. and as the more mobile dragon, he could fly around and choose his attack, while G would have to wait, and always be in a defensive position. The best reason he would win depends on if he was a fire drake or not. In the Sil, when the winged dragons are released, they come with thunder and lightning and fire. So there is evidence he was a different sort, and used more than fire.
So there you go, my opinion is Ancalagon would win 6 or 7 out of ten fights. I wait for responses to this so I can spend more time looking through my books and avoid studying for finals

 

[Gil-Galad]

Originally posted by Link


I'm sorry, but when Glaurung dies, there is only one thing broken, the spell on Hurin's family. But when Ancalagon dies, the big baddest most impregnable mountains ever to be seen on earth are completely laid to waste.

It would have happened the same thing if Glaurung have fallen at the place where Anc felt.

 

[YayGollum]

Woah, crazy Link person! Why do you think I made things up? As far as I know, dragons keep growing the older they get. That = Glaurung is bigger and has more armour than Ancalagon. I gots to agree with what this Gil-Galad person had to say. But then, there is that huge thing with the wings. That's the huge difference I would think. But then again, I love to think that Glaurung was older = wiser and smarter. oh well. It's not a huge deal. If Ancalagon ever got anywhere near Glaurung, I am achingly sure that he'd get killed. Who here thinks that Ancalagon could beat Glaurung if he didn't have wings?

 

[Gil-Galad]

See how beautiful it sounds:

Originally posted by YayGollum
Glaurung was older = wiser and smarter. ...

and stronger and greater!

 

[Inderjit S]

The quote when Ancalagon was thrown down says he broke the towers of Thangordrim, not the mountains, so his size needs to be curtailed a bit.

Er....NO he threw down the mountains.

But Earendil came in the sky and he overthrew Ancalagon, the black Dragon, and in his fall Thangordrim, was broken

HoMe 5; The Lost Road

I hesitate to use Early Quenta material, but the 'War of Wrath' was never revised by Tolkien and there is no evidence of a revision in ToY (Home 11), so this is what Chris. Tolkien based the Published Silmarillion upon. Note, these are the Annals of Beleriand, an earlier form of the Grey Annals, not the actual prose form of the Silmarillion. Also look at the Published Silmarillion index:

Thangorodrim;....broken down in the great battle at the end of the First Age.

And as we can see from the quote in the Silmarillion:

and cast him from the sky; and he fell upon the towers of Thangordrim, and they were broken in his ruin...

So it seems Ancalagon’s fall broke Thangordrim since their destruction is not mentioned elsewhere and 'towers' was simply a poetic reference ot the mountains themselves.

And Luthien in her spell of growth (in the lays of Beleriand) uses Glaurung’s name, as being the biggest dragon.

You are using a separate Legendarium in which the Quenta Silmarillion hadn't even begun. All that had been begun was the Narn and the Lay of Leithian, and the Lost Tales legendarium, of which the two were based upon. Ancalagon hadn't even been conceived by Tolkien yet, never mind Melkor.

 

[Celebithil]

Glaurung

I think Glaurung would most likely win especially if Glaurung had survived to the time of Ancalagon birth/release.