🧙‍♂️ How old is Gandalf?

[LordOfMoria]

I think that is incredible that you or anyone just cant read the books, u have to study them!!!!!

 

[BlackCaptain]

LordofMoria, just out of curiosity, why do you have Gandalf in your avatar? Im just curious

 

[LordOfMoria]

Ah hell, i dont know, i put him in their cause Moria was my fav. part in the fellowship and Gandalf overthrew the Balrog and their for, i say he is LordOfMoria!!!! For a time being of course. If that doesnt make since, its becuase i just made it up!!!!

 

[BlackCaptain]

haha... well between you and me and... well... anyone who reads this thread, my avatar is really the mouth of Sauron. It just looks really cool

 

[Grond]

Originally posted by LordOfMoria
I think that is incredible that you or anyone just cant read the books, u have to study them!!!!!

ROFL! I can just read them and I don't have to study them. I read and study the books because I absolutely love them and desire to develop a decent amount of Tolkien knowledge to be able to adequately moderate on this forum and to try and help educate others about Tolkien's works through our Guild of Tolkienology.

I have other hobbies which include tennis and golf to name a few. Tolkien is one of my hobbies and I also have an extensive library of his works which include first editions, first printings of many of his later works.

 

[Turin]

He says in the movie that he walked this earth 300 lives of men. I hope that helps.

 

[Grond]

Originally posted by turin56
He says in the movie that he walked this earth 300 lives of men. I hope that helps.

Sorry turin56, but the movie is hardly an encyclopedia of correctness as far as the Lord of the Rings is concerned.

Gandalf is the Maia, Olorin who is ageless. He is a Ainu from beyond Ea and is of the house of Manwe. He was placed in earthly body around 1000 Third Age. He died while vanquishing the Balrog and was restored as Gandalf the White on February 17, 3019 Third Age. So his first earthly body of Gandalf the Grey was some 2019 years old when he died.

 

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Grond
He is a Ainu from beyond Ea and is of the house of Manwe.

Though there is evidence for both sides, Olórin is more likely to be a Maia of Irmo, the Vala od dreams and visions.

1. His name bears great resemblance to one of Irmo's names, Olofantur. Both have the element "olo(ri)" which means "dreams".

2. From The Silmarillion, the Valaquenta:

Wisest of the Maiar was Olórin. He too dwelt in Lórien, but his ways took him often to the house of Nienna, and of her he learned pity and patience.
for though he loved the Elves, he walked among them unseen, or in form as one of them, and they did not know whence came the fair visions or the promptings of wisdom that he put into their hearts. In later days he was the friend of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and took pity on their sorrows; and those who listened to him awoke from despair and put away the imaginations of darkness.

This quote also supports the view of Olórin being a Maia of Lórien. He dwelt there (this is not exactly the firmest possible evidence, but it could indicate his being part of the people of Irmo), but more importantly, his description tells us that he was skilled with visions and dreams.

 

[Grond]

I should have stated, IMHO, Gandalf/Olorin was a Maia of Manwe. Based on UT, it is clear that he was "chosen" by none other than Manwe and this footnote makes it clear that at one time Tolkien considered him as being a Maia of Manwe.

from Unfinished Tales, The Istari
...On another page of jottings clearly belonging to the same period it is said that "Curumo was obliged to take Aiwendil to please Yavanna wife of Aulë." There are here also some rough tables relating the names of the Istari to the names of the Valar: Olórin to Manwë and Varda, Curumo to Aulë, Aiwendil to Yavanna, Alatar to Oromë, and Pallando also to Oromë (but this replaces Pallando to Mandos and Nienna).

Of course, there is also this that is said in the same chapter...

same source
Olor is a word often translated "dream", but that does not refer to (most) human "dreams," certainly not the dreams of sleep. To the Eldar it included the vivid contents of their memory, as of their imagination: it referred in fact to clear vision, in the mind, of things not physically present at the body's situation. But not only to an idea, but to a full clothing of this in particular form and detail.

An isolated etymological note explains the meaning similarly:
olo's: vision, "phantasy:" Common Elvish name for "construction of the mind" not actually (pre)existing in Ëa apart from the construction, but by the Eldar capable of being by Art (Karmë) made visible and sensible. Olos is usually applied to fair construction having solely an artistic object (i.e. not having the object of deception, or of acquiring power).

Words deriving from this root are cited: Quenya olos "dream, vision," plural olozi/olori; õla- (impersonal) "to dream;" olosta "dreamy." A reference is then made to Olofantur, which was the earlier "true" name of Lórien, the Vala who was "master of visions and dreams," before it was changed to Irmo in The Silmarillion (as Nurufantur was changed to Námo (Mandos): though the plural Fëanturi for these two "brethren" survived in the Valaquenta).

These discussion of olos, olor are clearly to be connected with the passage in the Valaquenta (The Silmarillion pp.30-1) where it is said that Olórin dwelt in Lórien in Valinor...

None of these quotes state that Olorin is affiliated with Namo or Lorien, only that his name and his place of residence would do so. The only specific reference in UT is the one at the top of my quote that states he was of Manwe and Varda.

Yet, there is also this which clearly insinuates that he is, indeed, directly related to Irmo.

from HoMe X, Morgoth's Ring, The Later Quenta Silmarillion
And wise was Olorin, counsellor of Irmo: secret enemy of the secret evils of Melkor, for his bright visions drove away the imaginations of darkness.

So.... whose to say... except J. R. R. T.

 

[Meldon]

Gandalf is 2021,

And Olórin is as old as Arda(or older), as he is one of the Ainur, Valar and Maiar are both Ainur. The only difference is their power.

 

[Maksim Kakitsev]

I'm pretty sure that Olorin (Gandalf in Valinor) had a physical body. In fact, all denizens of Valinor did. Perhaps he just made himself look like an old man when coming to the Middle-Earth.

So yeah, Gandalf (or the being we know as Gandalf) is as old as other Maiar. He was there when the world was made. So were Saruman and Sauron, they are Maia too.

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

I'm pretty sure that Olorin (Gandalf in Valinor) had a physical body. In fact, all denizens of Valinor did. Perhaps he just made himself look like an old man when coming to the Middle-Earth.

So yeah, Gandalf (or the being we know as Gandalf) is as old as other Maiar. He was there when the world was made. So were Saruman and Sauron, they are Maia too.

Actually it says in the Silmarillion they did not have physical bodies, they were spirits that took the forms of men and/or elves:

Now the Valar took to themselves shape and hue; and because they were drawn into the World by love of the Children of Ilúvatar, for whom they hoped they took shape after that manner which they had beheld in the Vision of Ilúvatar, save only in majesty and splendour. Moreover their shape comes of the knowledge of the visible World, rather than of the World itself; and thy need it not, save only as we use raiment, and yet we may be naked and suffer no loss of our being. Therefore the Valar may walk, if they will, unclad, and then even the Eldar cannot clearly perceive them, though they be present. But when they desire to clothe themselves the Valar take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female; for that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby. But the shapes wherein the Great Ones array themselves are not at all times like to the shapes of the kings and queens of the Children of Ilúvatar; for at times they may clothe themselves in their own thought, made visible in forms of majesty and dread.

This just seems to say to me that they didn't have physical bodies that they were required to use, they were, as the quote says, just like clothing for their spirits.
The quote was originally posted by Gothmog in this thread:
http://thetolkien.forum/showthread.php?9391-Appearance-of-the-Valar

 

[Vishwanath]

Gandalf was one of people of Manwe he is Olorin(a maia) in the spirit world but is sent to be the enemy of sauron in the third age with 4 other companion Aiwendil(Radgast),Curumo(Saruman),Alatar and Pallando(The blue wizards) when Gandalf left middle earth he was about 2000 years old but his real age is unknown,He along with the other Aianur is older than arda itself.

 

[OfRhosgobel]

He and the other Istari arrived sometime around 1000 in the Third Age of Sun and Moon. So by the war of the ring he was roughly about over 2000. But his immortal spirit has existed before Arda even came into being, like all other Maiar. Hope this answers your question

Actually it says in the Silmarillion they did not have physical bodies, they were spirits that took the forms of men and/or elves:


This just seems to say to me that they didn't have physical bodies that they were required to use, they were, as the quote says, just like clothing for their spirits.
The quote was originally posted by Gothmog in this thread:
http://thetolkien.forum/showthread.php?9391-Appearance-of-the-Valar

All Valar and Maiar have the ability to change their appearance and can theirfore take on the form of any race upon Arda. Though the wizards(Istari) were made in the forms of old Men. It would seem that Radaghast was the only Istari to be able to change his form!

I'm pretty sure that Olorin (Gandalf in Valinor) had a physical body. In fact, all denizens of Valinor did. Perhaps he just made himself look like an old man when coming to the Middle-Earth.

So yeah, Gandalf (or the being we know as Gandalf) is as old as other Maiar. He was there when the world was made. So were Saruman and Sauron, they are Maia too.

Gandalf(Olorin) was not able to choose his physical form. This was the command of Manwe; that all the Istari come to Middle-Earth in the forms of men and not be allowed to exist in Middle-Earth in the fullness of their power. He made them to suffer from hurt and famine and know the weariness of mortal existense. For Manwe did not want a direct contest of power between the Istari and Sauron, he wanted them to get Men, Elves, and Dwarfs to handle their own problems and defeat Sauron without divine intervention.

 

[Sauron]

Gandalf(Olorin) was not able to choose his physical form. This was the command of Manwe; that all the Istari come to Middle-Earth in the forms of men and not be allowed to exist in Middle-Earth in the fullness of their power. He made them to suffer from hurt and famine and know the weariness of mortal existense. For Manwe did not want a direct contest of power between the Istari and Sauron, he wanted them to get Men, Elves, and Dwarfs to handle their own problems and defeat Sauron without divine intervention.

So the Istari (being Maia) certainly had the power (if they were allowed to use all of it) to overcome Sauron, is what you are saying?

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

Not the complete power to overcome Sauron, but they had powers...we're not told how strong they were compared to Sauron so really can't say they would be able to overcome or defeat him for sure, but if they had full use of their power, I'm sure they could hold their own for a little while.

 

[Pham]

If you go by the movies, he has been in corporeal form for approx. 21,000 years.

"Three hundred lives of men have I walked this earth and now, I have no time." - Gandalf the white, the two towers.

If we figure the average age for a man in middle earth to be 70 (which I think is eminently reasonable), then you get: 300 x 70 = 21,000 years.

Everyone keeps saying 2019 years or 2100 years ...

Either they made a major goof in the movie with that quote, or everyone online is off on his (human form) age by a factor of 10.

Maths, people...

 

[Elthir]

But why go by the films?

The Tale of Years, Third Age: "When maybe a thousand years had passed, and the first shadow had fallen on Greenwood the Great, the Istari or Wizards appeared in Middle-earth." And "c. 1100 The Wise (the Istari and the chief Eldar)..." Appendix B, The Return of the King

Olorin is obviously a far older spirit, able to appear as an Elf among Elves for example, but it seems a bit odd to me if one were to say Gandalf is the same age as Olorin, since Gandalf is a specific "old sage figure" incarnation, sent to Middle-earth for a specific purpose.

In my opinion