So why did 🧙Gandalf take the Fellowship thru Moria???

[lilhobo]

It was like 12 pages and i quite forgot what the consensus was???

 

[Ragnarok]

Caradhras wouldnt let them pass. And Saruman controlled the Gap of Rohan, which would be too close to Isengard for the Ring anyway. Moria was the only other way.

 

[lilhobo]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
Caradhras wouldnt let them pass. And Saruman controlled the Gap of Rohan, which would be too close to Isengard for the Ring anyway. Moria was the only other way.

well dont tell harad that.....otherwise he will tell you about logic and assumptions that are or aint substantitated....and that everyone is picking on him despite his being the greatest logical thinker since Jessie ventura

 

[Gothmog]

To put it in a short post, the reason that Gandalf took the fellowship through Moria is that neither Gandalf nor Aragorn trusted the Gap of Rohan as a way through the mountains and the route through Lebennin was too long. This left only the Pass of Caradhras or Moria.

Gandalf thought that the weather would prevent their use of the Pass, Aragorn was also worried about this. However, Aragorn thought that they should try Caradhras first. This Gandalf concented to, after this failed they then followed the course that Gandalf felt from the begining they should have used and was the only one that he thought had a chance of success.

 

[Bucky]

>>>>the greatest logical thinker since Jessie ventura


As Jesse used to say when defending the bad guys in announcing wrestling:

"That's the way I see it, Jack." i.e. His opinion/interpretation.

"I'm the only one who tells it like it is." meaning he can actually think & isn't a tow the line mouthpiece.....

Sorry, I always liked the underdog.

The key in a discussion thread is not to respond to or give out flames or personal attacks, Harad (or his enemies)....

 

[Grond]

Bucky, how is a person that is never wrong an underdog? The person that is never wrong is a legend in their own mind and so far superior to everyone else that everyone else is immediately rendered to "underdog status".

As to your comment, "...meaning he can actually think & isn't a tow the line mouthpiece.....", I assume your meaning here is that apparently the rest of us can't think and are tow the line mouthpieces. To that I simply say, everyone is entitled to their opinions, even those who are in the sizeable minority.

 

[Grond]

I'll get back on point and simply state that Gandalf chose Moria because:
1) He wanted the company to disappear for a while.
2) It's exit was closest to Lorien (except for Carhadras which was tried a failed)
3) He had been through Moria before and made it out fine. There were no orcs then and the Balrog must have been out for a snooze because Gandalf makes no mention of it. It is not stated anywhere in the text that anyone knows exactly what Durin's Bane was and Gandalf may have felt he was up to the task of handling something not coeval to himself.
4) He feels the Gap of Rohan is closed due to increased vigilance of Sauron.

Those are the actual and logical reasons presented by Gandalf the Grey, leader of the Fellowship of the Ring.

If we want to speculate whether the author was logical in making his character take that choice, we can debate that. As to why the fellowship went through the mines of Moria, the author wrote it that way.

 

[Gothmog]

Harad, the question asked is "Why did Gandalf the the fellowship through Moria" not "Why did JRRT want the Fellowship to og through Moria".

JRRT wrote the whole book as he did for Good literary reasons. that is a different question. The reason for Gandalf going through Moria is the reasons given by the author. Those reasons are stated above.

***Paragraph deleted as no longer valid***

 

[Grond]

Originally posted by Harad
...My responses, always on point...

You post and shoot yourself in the foot at the same time. Your vocabulary Harad consists entirely of I'm always on point, I'm always this or I'm always that. It is no wonder that you attract so much negativity from the forum in general. Do the words self centered and egotistical have no meaning to you?

 

[Walter]

Since the thread has been deleted, I wonder if there has been any more speculation about the possibility to proceed from Imladris via the High Pass and south the Anduin...

 

[Grond]

Walter, you know Harad is going to love this, but I can find no logical reason why the company would not have wanted to use that route. It was relatively well travelled and well known to Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas. Once they got further south, even Boromir would have been able to help with directions.

It appears that they may have needed to find boats sooner but they went off from Imladris with no real idea of what they would need or where they might need it. Do I remember something from the Council of Elrond about the high passes being closed?? If someone has a book handy, please look.... I'm at work without any reference material.

 

[Gothmog]

Since the pass over Caradhras had problems with the wether it may well be that being further north it would have had such problems even earlier. This could be the reason they did not try it at the time. I can think of no other reason.

 

[Gothmog]

the only mention of the High Pass that I could find is when Frodo was talking to Gloin before the Council:

'Indeed,' said Glóin, `if it were not for the Beornings, the passage from Dale to Rivendell would long ago have become impossible. They are valiant men and keep open the High Pass and the Ford of Carrock. But their tolls are high,' he added with a shake of his head; `and like Beorn of old they are not over fond of dwarves. Still, they are trusty, and that is much in these days.

So it seems that there is trouble on the other side of the mountains that the High Pass will take them into.

The other Mention of a high pass is later:

Many had gone east and south; and some of these had crossed
the Mountains and entered Mirkwood, while others had climbed the pass at the source of the Gladden River, and had come down into Wilderland and over the Gladden Fields and so at length had reached the old home of Radagast at Rhosgobel. Radagast was not there; and they had returned over the high pass that was called the Dimrill Stair. The sons of Elrond, Elladan and Elrohir, were the last to return;

This is probably why Aragorn wanted to try the pass of Caradhras first.

 

[Walter]

Yep - in the maps I have, the High Pass and the Redhorn Pass are about the same height - so if there was snow at the Redhorn Pass there was most probably snow on the High Pass as well. Both are said to be only about 4500ft high - I wonder how accurate those maps are...

Maybe another reason for not taking this route into consideration was that the company with Bilbo had been captured by the Orcs there...

 

[Greenwood]

RE: The High Pass

The map in my copy of FOTR does not give altitudes, but it does give a rough scale and the High Pass looks to be approx. 150 miles further north than the Redhorn Gate. In winter this could make a difference in the weather you could expect. Taking the High Pass would also necessitate a long journey south either between the mountains and the river, the river and Mirkwood (bringing them near Dol Guldur), or on the Anduin River itself (which would mean either finding or building boats in the wilderness).

As for the Redhorn Gate itself, Gandalf says at the end of the debate between Aragorn and himself; "From signs that we have seen lately I fear that the Redhorn Gate may be watched; and also I have doubts of the weather that is coming up behind. Snow may come. ..... "

 

[Kuduk]

I think it is difficult to use the Company's experience in their attempt to cross the Redhorn Pass as a basis for making judgements about what conditions would have been like on the High Pass since the snow on the Redhorn Pass did not appear to be 'natural' in origin.

Anyway, I think the reasons for not taking the High Pass and crossing the Misty Mts right from Rivendell is given in the book.

At the Ford of Bruinen they left the Road and turning southwards went on by narrow paths among the folded lands. Their purpose was to hold this course west of the Mountains for many miles and days. The country was much rougher and more barren than in the green vale of the Great River in Wilderland on the other side of the range, and their going would be slow; but they hoped in this way to escape the notice of unfriendly eyes. The spies of Sauron had hitherto seldom been seen in this empty country, and the paths were little known except to the people of Rivendell.

So I would also offer that by the reasoning given in this paragraph, the decision to go through Moria was a calculated risk and not necessarily poor judgment -- except, of course, they forgot about the small matter of the Balrog.

 

[ReadWryt]

Ok, look...here is the whole deal on Personal Attacks. Unlike the reaction that some un-named poster to this thread had, and counter to their statement that when attacked they will attack back, there will be NONE of that in ANY thread. If anyone attacks you personally, let the moderators know by reporting the post. Do NOT respond with a "Counter Attack"...this is how Flame Wars indeed start and flame wars were the reason the previous incarnation of this forum was shut down. If you MUST respond to someone's post do so in Private Message or E-Mail but do NOT presume to waste the Public Space with your petty personal garbage...period. Trust me on this, I know that some of you think that I am mean, ill tempered and possibly drunk with power, but if you think that I am like Saruman wait till you have to tangle with the Webmaster, he is not just Morgoth, he is Eru on a really bad day!

 

[daisy]

re: forgetting the balrog

I was under the impression that Gandalf was very much aware of the existence, or at least rumour of the balrog, and was simply hoping that they could make it through Moria without making too much noise, which of course Pippin took care of. Am I wrong? A sleeping four year old has cut off access to tome.

daisy

 

[Grond]

Daisy, I think everyone was aware that Durin's Bane resided in Moria; but, whether anyone actually knew it was a Balrog is never stated in the texts. I seem to remember it referred to as a sleeping evil awakened when the Dwarves delved too deep.

And you are right, both Gandalf and Aragorn had been through Moria before and not encountered the evil thing.

 

[Lantarion]

Then why would Gandalf be reluctant to go through Khazad-dûm? If he didn't have a clue of what was inside, you might call it caution; but he seems very grim and sure that the way through Moria is unsafe.. Perhaps Maiar have the same kind of 'revelations' that Elves have (like Melian, when she speaks to Galadriel of the destruction of Beleriand), and Gandalf just somehow 'knew' that there was something nasty locked up inside. He knew that the Dwarves had awakened Durin's Bane, but he wasn't sure whether it was still there or not. His not being sure is shown in his sigh: "A Balrog. Now I understand. What an evil fate. And I am already weary."