the arrival of Glorfindel and the 🧙Istari

[Maeglin]

Did Elrond know when Glorfindel and the Istari were coming back to Middle-Earth, or did Cirdan know? Because if they didn't know it must have been quite a surprise and said "hey Elrond" or "hey Cirdan, do you mind if I live with you for a few thousand years?"(well live with in the case of Glorfindel) but I bet the first place the Istari went was to either Elrond or Cirdan, does anyone know anything about this?

 

[Anamatar IV]

Círdan saw further and deeper than any other in Middle-earth, and he welcomed Mithrandir at the Grey Havens, knowing whence he came and whither he would return.
'Take this ring Master,' he said, 'for your labours will be heavy but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill. But as for me, my heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores until the last ship sails. I will await you.'

So Cirdan welcomed the istari at the grey havens. And he knew where they came from.

 

[Galdor]

I don't know where you get the idea that Glorfindel came back around the same time as the Istari. And also, the Istari didn't all come in the same boat load, but arrived at different times. No one in ME knew that the Istari would be coming to ME, but when they did come, Círdan was the only one who perceived who they were, and their purpose. When Gandalf first arrived, Círdan perceived that he was the wisest of them, and gave him Nenya. As far as I know, Círdan was the only one who ever really knew who they weir, and why they were in ME, though I would guess that in the conversations Galadriel, Elrond, and Gandalf had on the way back to Rivendel, Gandalf revealed his true nature and purpose to them.

 

[Maeglin]

I never said the Istari came in the same boatload, but even so nothing is ever mentioned about conversations between cirdan and the others. And my idea that Glorfindel came around the same time as the Istari is from a quote I remember reading somewhere and other members have mentioned it in previous threads.

 

[Anamatar IV]

I said they came in the same boat my mistake. But Galdor's mistake by saying Cirdan gave gandalf Nenya.

 

[Maeglin]

oh yeah I didn't even notice that, but now that you mention it Nenya was Galadriel's ring, Vilya was Elrond's, Cirdan gave Gandalf Narya.

 

[Galdor]

Sorry, my bad.

 

[gate7ole]

from The Istari, UT
they came from over the Sea out of the Uttermost West; though this was for long known only to Círdan, Guardian of the Third Ring, master of the Grey Havens, who saw their landings upon the western shores.

Undoubtfully, Círdan was the first (and for some time the only one), to perceive their identity.

from The Istari, UT
they belonged solely to the Third Age and then departed, and none save maybe Elrond, Círdan and Galadriel discovered of what kind they were or whence they came.

And except the three great elves of ME, none other dicsovered it.

About the resemblance with Glorfindel's arrival, I have no clue (and I don't remember such a quote).

PS. Glorfindel1187, why all your threads in one way or another contain Glorfindel?

 

[Maeglin]

Thats not true! I may have posted one or two threads recently that in some way concern Glorfindel, but he is not usually the chief topic of the thread,but I did just today post a thread that concerned something stupid he said, so that is not supporting him, as you might think I would. And also I think one or two of the threads that I have not started but posted in recently involve him.

And well okay maybe I was just imagining a quote about Glorfindel's arrival, but still he had to come back sometime, whence did he return to Middle-Earth? I need someone wise that won't make fun of me such as Grond or Lantarion or Maedhros to answer this one.

 

[gate7ole]

OK, I checked and I'm back.

From HOME XII
We may then best suppose that Glorfindel returned during the Second Age, before the 'shadow' fell on Numenor, and while the Numenoreans were welcomed by the Eldar as powerful allies. His return must have been for the purpose of strengthening Gil-Galad and Elrond, when the growing evil of the intentions of Sauron were at last perceived by them. It might therefore, have ben as early as S.A. 1200, when Sauron came in person in Lindon and attempted to deceive Gil-Galas. But it may have been perhaps more probably, as late as 1600, the Year of Dread...

So, Glorfindel came at the Second Age and not the Third as the Istari.

 

[Galdor]

Glorfinel, I have not made fun of you, nor do I believe gate7ole was trying to make fun of you ether, but rather thought it was funny that most of your threads have something to do with Glorfindel. But that is you sn, and you obviously like him, so it is to be expected.

And as to the time when Glorfindel was reborn in ME, no one knows for sure, indeed, it is even a big debate on whether the Glorfindel of Gondolin, and the Glorfindel of Rivendel are the same person. Though I personally think they were the same person, others do not, and there is evidence supporting both views. Here is a website where you can read all about it.

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

 

[Maeglin]

Oh yes I believe he is the same person as well, but I have read all of those threads debating that and I have gotten sick of them, especially since there is seeminly no way everyone will agree on a final answer or there isn't enough evidence to support either opinion as being the one correct answer.

 

[Arvedui]

I believe Glorfindel is one and the same, as well. Why?
Because Tolkien wanted it to be so, if not in his books, then in his notes. And that is enough to me. Sometimes I think we might just go a little over the top in debating his works.

Note also that in the link, it says that Glorfindel came to ME in the Mid-second age, or in the beginning of the third, accompanying the Istari.

And just continue posting on Glorfindel, he is one of the most intriguing characters to me as well.

 

[Cian]

Originally posted by Galdor: And as to the time when Glorfindel was reborn in ME, no one knows for sure, indeed, it is even a big debate on whether the Glorfindel of Gondolin, and the Glorfindel of Rivendel are the same person.

I don't see why. Folk ask this question ... JRR Tolkien himself answered it on paper.

Tha Encyclopedia of Arda argument is flawed IMO. They simply point out that Tolkien wrote something 'conflicting' and use the problem of ROS as example ... but what does this have to do with the question of Glorfindel specifically? How many people post "Alatar" and "Pallando" were the names of the Blue Wizards ... that is info culled from just as much a 'note' as the Glorfindel essays IMO (and there are alternate names to boot).

Speculation is fine. Pointing out the problem in "The Problem Of ROS" is fine too Tolkien himself noted that 'most of this fails' because of the name Cair Andros ... but where does Tolkien write similar about his Glorfindel essays?

And even if someone could 'poke holes' in the Glorfindel essays regarding certain ideas, the main idea speaks to the general question.

The main idea is that Glorfindel was a reincarnated Noldo returned to Middle-earth, which is what JRRT wrote and evidently desired. Ok, so does this idea "conflict" with published (in Tolkien's lifetime) texts? and if not, why is it not the 'answer' ... at least Tolkien's answer

¤

 

[Húrin Thalion]

Of course it was not hard for Círdan to realize that the istari where messengers from the Powers, who else would in the third age come sailing into the havens from the west? And I also think that the istari made a little trip around the world and discussed with the elves and elf friends on the situation and in that conversation they woould certainly see who they are.

Also in the history of celeborn and Galadriel in the UT there is a conversation between Gandalf and Galadriel and he is called Ólorin, does this not mean that they knew eachother from the time in the west?

Húrin Thalion

 

[Maeglin]

Well now that you mention the Istari travelling around the world, it brings another question to my mind: Were there elves in other parts of Middle-Earth? Like in Rhun and/or Harad?

 

[Húrin Thalion]

I would not think so but there is a possiblity. There were some elves that left the march before they even reached the march and there is also the ones who fled from Oromë. But i wouldn't know really, the Ithrynluin travelled eastwards at least.

Húrin Thalion

 

[Maeglin]

hmm well now that I think of it I think I can answer my own question and say yes there were probably some dark elves around those parts, but I guess what I am really wondering is if there were any organized dwellings of Elves....